Gibson informers

Discussion in 'Guitars in General' started by Ted74, Jun 25, 2019.

  1. metropolis74

    metropolis74 Member

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    Anyone seen this story? I guess the authentic Gibson solid body single cutaway guitar should now be known as an O.W. Appleton. Lol!



    [​IMG]

    http://www.owappleton.com/index.html

    "In 1943 Appleton took his guitar to Gibson, to see if they had an interest in manufacturing the model. They told him that they couldn't imagine someone playing a solid-body electric guitar.

    Almost ten years later, in 1952, Appleton received a letter from a friend at Gibson. The letter read, "Well, App, you see our competition (editor's note: that would be Fender) has finally forced us to come out with your solid guitar. Sure wish we had listened to you back in 1943." Included with the letter was a brochure for the new Gibson Les Paul Model. In frustration, App threw the letter out."
     
  2. Jazzandmore

    Jazzandmore Gold Supporting Member

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    To be more serious. Can Gibson pressure the forums for posting pics of the types of guitars they want reported? Can’t they claim the forums are allowing the activity?
     
  3. FetusFajitas

    FetusFajitas Member

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    https://puresalem-guitars.myshopify.com/blogs/attack-captain/puresalem-vs-gibson

    PURESALEM VS. GIBSON
    [​IMG] PureSalem Guitars was launched in 2013. It is a family run affair and will always be a work in progress. We are a small business with a giant heart and love for music. The American dream is alive and well and PureSalem is the perfect example of that. I walked away from a twenty one year career to follow my dream and embark on this crazy adventure. My only regret is I wish I would have done it sooner! Along the way many friendships have been made and lesson learned. Recently, the 800 pound gorilla in the room Gibson Guitars has taken notice of us. Their lawyers felt the need to send us a Cease & Desist order ( C & D ) regarding our CARDINAL model. They claim that our Cardinal model is a copy of their Firebird model. I can tell you right now it is not, it is a completely different guitar as you will read below. PureSalem is well aware of Gibson’s business practices so this was taken all in stride. We obtained legal council to respond to their claims. Our letter was met with negative response. We submit that there is simply no credible argument that consumers will be confused between a PureSalem and a Gibson. No infringement action could be based on likelihood of consumer confusion. Guitar consumers at this level, probably at any level, know that guitar manufacturers typically brand their guitars on the headstocks – again greatly attenuating any potential confusion. There are a myriad of manufacturers using this design or similar variants in the industry and there are no instances of confusion that have come to our’ attention. Our Cardinal model is a complexity different body shape than the Firebird or Revers Firebird. If both models were “Mirrored or sandwiched” together they would not line up or match in any way.

    [​IMG]While we continued to patiently await Gibson’s response, their legal team contact FACEBOOK and advised them that we were in violation of trademarks but extend the models to include our LA FLACA and ELEVATION. FACEBOOK removed multiple images without notice. Facebook did however provide us with the opportunity to contest the image takedowns by providing a link where we can express our grievance. We have yet to hear back from Facebook. So now Gibson is considering our La Flaca model a SG copy and our Elevation is a 335 copy. For us, this is where Gibson crossed the line. This is where their bully tactics reared their ugly head. Our La Flaca is not even close to being an SG copy. While there is a long history of non-Gibson manufactured guitars using the SG design or slight variants dating back decades and continuing ( Wylde Audio, Fret King, ESP & others ) our La Flaca stands on its own merits. Our Elevation model is a double cutaway and is no different in shape than guitars being manufactured by Washburn, Collings, D’angelico. Ibanez and many others. This body shape has been manufactured for decades by a multitude on non-Gibson manufacturers. Guitar consumers are well aware that it is not just Gibson that makes guitars with this body shape.

    So … Gibson has sent us a C & D and contacted Facebook in what we consider to be very bad faith. What do they do next? They contact our web hosting company and advise them the same.

    We were instructed to remove all the images that they claimed were in violation. We did comply and thats why our three models were not up on the site for a short period. We were advised that we could counter claim and that Gibson would then have 10 business days to respond with a court order if the models were to be kept off the site. Gibson did not respond to our counter claim and now our models are back up on our website.

    This is the issue. This is why we have decide to go public. Gibson guitars likes to cherry pick who they go after. They skirt the permitter of what is legally ethical. They are bullies and employ scare tactics on smaller companies. Its a shame that what was in our opinion a treasured and cherished institution has lowered itself to such disgusting levels. PureSalem guitars is just the newest flavor of the month for Gibson. We are surly not the first to have to be forced to play this silly game and sadly we will not be the last.

    [​IMG]
    Onto the Cardinal differences … The Cardinal dimensions are different from the Gibson design – the Cardinal is more like a non-reverse Firebird or Jazzmaster shape, but is also distinguishable from those shapes The overall shape is different with the upper bout at a sharper angle than a Gibson, and the front and back angles of Cardinal are steeper and match. The neck of the Cardinal is bolt on. The headstock design is significantly different and conspicuously displays the PS brand. The truss rod cover is different. The placement of the output jack and controls are different. The tone and volume knobs are different. The PS Cardinal is a one piece slab body. The strap buttons are placed differently so the guitar balances differently. The pickguard is a different shape and is devoid of graphics. The pickup selector switch is in a different location on the PS Cardinal. The PS uses proprietary pickups. The PS uses a straight 6 classic inline tuner design. The PS headstock has the PS logo on it.

    Finally, it is important to note the court’s reasoning in Gibson Guitar Corp. v. Paul Reed Smith Guitars LP where the court stated that there was no likelihood of confusion at the point of sale and that was dispositive of the entire case. The court also noted “[a]s always, our concern was with ‘whether the defendant’s use of the disputed mark is likely to cause confusion among consumers regarding the origin of the goods offered by the parties.’” “[A] claim of trademark infringement requires a showing that that the defendant’s actual practice is likely to produce confusion in the minds of consumers about the origin of the goods or services in question.” Id. and see IP Permanent Make-Up v. Lasting Impression I, Inc. As noted above, there is no likelihood of confusion of ANY kind here, and based on the quality of PS guitars and knowledgeable consumers, there is no tarnishment or dilution.

    I would like to thank everyone for the kind words of support and encouragement. It has really uplifted us and shown us what an amazing community we are a part of. I wish you all the best!!!



    Rick Sell
    PureSalem Guitars
     
  4. RicardoDiazHimself

    RicardoDiazHimself Member

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    Informer, ya' no say daddy me Snow me I go blame
    A licky boom boom down
    'Tective man a say, say daddy me Snow me stab someone down the lane
    A licky boom boom down
     
  5. Vintage_

    Vintage_ Member

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    This. Gibson is Well aware of the Chibsons they don't need anyone to tell them about it lol. The option with the most potential to take on the china counterfeits already got scrapped. So I wouldn't expect much to happen on that front.
     
  6. wox

    wox Supporting Member

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  7. Axeaholic

    Axeaholic Supporting Member

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    Man I didn't know this brand, very cool guitars !!!
     
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  8. enharmonic

    enharmonic Old Growth Gold Supporting Member

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    I’ll do their legwork for them in exchange for a free R8 for every company I dime out. :anon
     
  9. bigsby'd

    bigsby'd Member

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    The App guitar is kinda dubious.....There’s no pictures of that guitar before the mid 60s
     
  10. flognoth

    flognoth Member

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    I don't get the Gibson bashing. As someone mentioned that page has been up for a while and isn't new.

    Most of the forums I read, people go out of their way to rightfully trash talk Chibsons and mention how they are counterfeit and isn't ok to buy them. I don't understand why that that same concept is a cause for contention here.

    It seemed to me that Mark Agnesi didn't like doing the video. It was a weird and awkward video and it seemed like the idea and the words came from above.

    Gibson, like all companies, has to protect their intellectual property and trademarks or they risk losing them like how Fender lost some. I don't think they'll win against Dean, they waited decades too long in most cases and because of that they shouldn't win. I get why they sued Dean, but that specific lawsuit is too late in the game and is foolish.

    Gibson has to demonstrate they are going after Chibsons even if they never collect. They stand to much lose more by not going after Chibsons and not collecting a cent then if they did nothing.

    To me this is no different than if the roles were swapped between Gibson and Fender and Fender was going after Chenders.
     
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  11. Gasp100

    Gasp100 Supporting Member

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    Agree!!!
    And fire the high priced lawyers, idiotic ad executives and maybe even Mark so they can price their guitars for normal human beings to even have a chance of owning.
    How many "working musicians" can even consider paying $2500 for a run of the mill off the shelf LP?
    It's absurd.
     
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  12. Rockledge

    Rockledge Member

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    Sounds like they are getting desperate.
     
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  13. Rockledge

    Rockledge Member

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    This. With a cherry on top.
    Pragmatism is a symptom of intelligence, and I would feel like an imbecile paying 10 times more for something than I needed to to get a tool that does the job just as well.
    It isn't just a matter of money, it is a matter of self respect and dignity.
     
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  14. metropolis74

    metropolis74 Member

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    Well then the Appleton heirs better lawyer up. Gibson is coming after them!
     
  15. Woollymonster

    Woollymonster Member

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    Maybe you got suckered into buying a Chibson?
     
  16. Help!I'maRock!

    Help!I'maRock! Member

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    Post every Gibson not made by Chicago Musical Instruments :D
     
  17. HeyMrTeleMan

    HeyMrTeleMan Colonel of Truth Gold Supporting Member

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    I agree. But bringing and winning lawsuits may become one of the way(s) they can make money. The lawyer costs are high though, just like everything else. Their new leadership is looking at everything!

    If I were Gibson, I'd start with your plan...
     
  18. s2y

    s2y Member

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    I was going to be upset if nobody posted this.





    ....a licky bom bom doowwwwwwwwn.
     
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  19. GuitarMike69

    GuitarMike69 Member

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    You can literally do an eBay search for "chibson LP" and see dozens of straight up replica knock off pieces of crap that have the Gibson logo on them. This begs the question, why doesn't Gibson go after eBay for allowing and profiting off of this?
     
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  20. Bluesful

    Bluesful Supporting Member

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    Because eBay's response is something like:

    "We remove all counterfeit items from listings as soon as we are made aware of them".
     

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