Discussion in 'Guitars in General' started by presence, Jun 13, 2019.
I don't take issue with this video. Gibson is in the midst of reclaiming/redefining their brand, so they're being clear about where they're coming from. I didn't see the Twitter incindent described above; that might influence my perspective here.
A lot of you are quick to defend your favorite builder's percieved brand value (heck, I got outright attacked on here for asking what was wrong with *me* that I didn't enjoy one builder's aesthetic on their well made guitars), but you won't allow Gibson to be up front about their position? I suppose I prefer a direct approach to passive aggressivity.
I just don't see this as anything but them reclaiming their well-earned valuable brand image.
Gibson created the aftermarket guitars, parts, and refinishers, by never being able to answer customer demands for THEM to do it.
Once they see 10 k Yarons, historic makeovers, and better parts and pickups, they all of a sudden up their game and try to compete with those that led the way for them to get better.
Why do people pay 4 k for a makeover, because you gibson didn't get it right.
Why do people pay 95 dollars for four knobs, because yours Gibson don't look as good.
Why do people buy aftermarket pickups, because you can't even get the PAF right
Over the pond pickup rings...
Pots, caps, wiring harness...
Accurate input jack plate...
Where should the logo be placed, high or low...
Brazilian......rip us off for that, overpriced bit of"authenticity"
Replace those klusons with grovers why don't you...
Knurled nut around the poker chip that isn't accurate..mmm yes.
So mr Agnessi, why don't you guys get your own authenticity issues in order, instead of the slow drip of changes you use to resell a guitar you can't recreate accurately.
Having supported Gibson since 1972, let me tell you this. My first les paul was an ibanez, because your guitars were three times the cost, and could sink a small boat.
We're coming for you...... ya right you should, others make your stuff better than you do.
Les Paul's are great guitars in spite of all this, and continue to sell, and hold their value well. Comments from them like this do nothing to further the brand, or create loyalty.
I may put a piece of black tape over my logo too, you left out the part that Gibson demands to be paid for that logo being displayed eh? buying the guitar wasn't enough now you want to be paid for showing it in public....
Follow the money Mark, we will always find Gibson there waiting with their hand out.
To me, it came off as pretty arrogant and somewhat misguided. Weren't they in fact borrowing ideas, such as pickups, from other builders? Are they now going to claim if the instruments have 6 strings, it is a Gibson trademark? I think they are barking up the wrong tree.
I'm not sure why Dwayne Johnson's anemic little brother is doing videos for them but that video was weird. I hope they do stop all the Chinese stuff, those drive me nuts. Otoh, they seem to be more worried about people like gil than the Chinese which is ridiculous.
The incredible irony of all this is that Fender, who produces the two designs which are the most copied BY FAR, often accurately, and even licenses their headstock design, has not encountered even a fraction of the corporate woes of 'only the real thing is good enough' Gibson. No bankruptcy, more consistent quality, better dealer contract models, the list goes on and on. Gibson are kind of like the Harely Davison of the guitar world.
My post was intended as a joke.
Fender has had its share of issues and they also have a large portion of debt. The quality thing is also subjective, many of the companies under Fender have dropped a lot in quality from what I've seen. All the offshore Jackson stuff has tanked in quality since they stopped making them in Japan for example.
Here is an example of a bad QA Fender:
Its worth mentioning as well I have an American Pro Stratocaster and I like it a lot - but it has a lot of quality woes (tuners made in Taiwan, most likely pot metal hardware, poly coated body, etc.) Its a good guitar, but nothing to really brag about, I just like how it plays and sounds so I give it a pass.
It's not JUST the Chinese stuff that should, for the guitar playing community, be a problem. Theft of intellectual property SHOULD be something that ALL creative people are against. Buy the real thing...buy Gibson, PRS, Fender, Martin, Taylor, Gretsch, etc. If you can't tell what brand of guitar it is without looking at the headstock...don't buy it!
"we" dude, you've been at Gibson 3 months.... ease up, 6 months ago you were shooting videos in Norms closet.
This is exactly what I was thinking, a few months ago he is hawking gear at Norm's rare guitars, now he is the voice of authenticity for Gibson.
Its not that I don't love Les Pauls, I have had a ton of them. I don't need to be preached to about them and their proprietory rights. That is for the lawyers and suits that feel they are being infringed upon.
They can start with Chibson, the Chinese should be very cooperative.
About 11 years ago I bought my R7 after spending the day A/Bing about 20 R8s and R9s at Centre City Music in San Diego. I already had an R8 that I was considering trading, which the owner encouraged me to do. He said that if he had a used Historic he could post it on his website. However, Gibson forbade him from posting new Gibsons on his website unless he maintained a minimum inventory that only the big-box stores could afford. He was out of business within a year.
I think Gibson could do more to reclaim it history and brand through a grassroots movement. They should champion the small businesses and demand personalized service, authorized repair persons from its dealers. Of course, my opinion comes from the nostalgic perspective emphasized in the video posted by the OP. The reality might be that the Internet killed all those shops.
Absolutely....Fender is not beyond reproach, far from it. They just don't seem to suffer from public-square hangings as much as Gibson. It's either because Fender customers are more forgiving of modernization, Gibson buyers are spending more money and want the quality and authenticity to reflect that, or some combination of those things and others. For example, you max out with Fender outside of the custom shop at around 2k and those are generally great guitars. With Gibson you're just getting started....you can't even get into a standard for that price. Yes, the LP is more complex to build and finish, but the substantial extra outlay should take care of those things. I think Gibson buyers are pickier and rightly so.
I say all of this not having a guitar by either mfg. I have a strat, a tele, and a Paul....all impeccable guitars made by top-tier luthiers in an American custom shop, all less or equivalent money to the big-name 'Standard' lines. For me, it was a no-brainer. But, I have no brand attachment and if I were forced to sell them I'd take serious losses.
I agree, but guitars are like every other product. While many of us understand the blantant IP violations and great risks of contracting so much of our manufacturing to China, everyone loves their $15 Chinese toasters and they aren't going to pay three times as much for an American-made real thing. We can't put that toothpaste back in the tube, so we are where we are. That being said I bet there is almost zero cross-shopping of Asian import and US factory made guitars for pro musicians/serious hobbyist s/studio session/blooze lawyers etc. The other side of the coin is that little Johnny can dip a toe into playing with a facsimile of a guitar his favorite band plays, which might start him into a lifelong passion which will likely end up with him buying anywhere from one to many of the real thing, so there is that. Of course, that's where Squier and Epiphone come into play...
Gibson watches all these forums, its a free market study of their products, and company profile.
If I were them I would make this video disappear, just like the "True Historic" fiasco of a few years ago. It shows me that as much as Henry was loathed by many, the new management is just as clueless.
They drove the small business man away, now they can drive away another level of their customer base.
For me, a lifelong advocate of Gibsons, owning more than I care to admit, the last thing I need to hear from them as they try to rebuild the Henry years, is some newbie talking about them being authentic. So you got a guy from Levi's running the show, and a former salesman at a guitar store as their spokesman.
Come back Henry.....we miss you.
I love my 3 Gibson guitars - 2 Les Pauls and an SG, but that video seriously made me cringe.
I find the camera angles very weird. "LOOK AT THE CAMERA"
I think their "rebranding" effort should focus on building great quality guitars at reasonable prices...if they can achieve that, the rest will take care of itself. Threats and endless lawsuits will do nothing but create a PR nightmare and drive customers to other options.
Gibson have every right to defend their brand and trademarks.
As others have mentioned, it seems like "Only a Gibson is Good Enough" needs to disappear as something the market never accepted, just like the robot tuners. Gibson is clearly not good enough for the many who are quite happy playing higher quality copies with a different name on the headstock.