Gibson / Play Authentic

Discussion in 'Guitars in General' started by presence, Jun 13, 2019.

  1. FlyingVBlues

    FlyingVBlues Gold Supporting Member

    Mar 20, 2002
    Virginia & Cortona Italia
    You bring up a very good point. In my opinion its because other companies, especially some of the excellent boutique builders, offer better quality, better customer service and customization's that Fender doesn’t provide. I don’t think that the Trademark Trial and Appeal Board decision hurt Fender, but imagine what the guitar world would be like today if they had trademarked their body designs back in the 50’s and very aggressively responded to infringement. I think a lot of guitarists and bassists gravitate towards traditional designs and many of the companies that copy Fender’s body designs might not exist today if Fender had applied for a trademark when they were first invented. Or at least the product offerings of those companies would be different. Fender does own the rights to their headstock design, and I’ve read lots of posts by people put off by G&L's, Suhr’s (which I like a lot) and Tyler’s headstocks and as a result they won’t consider buying them. I imagine the same thing would happen with guitar bodies and other originally unique design features.

    I think the Gibson video is more about preventing the dilution of their brand than protecting their design features. But it is entirely possible that under Gibson’s new management we’ll see a flurry of cease and desist letters and lawsuits filed.
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
    C-4 and presence like this.
  2. Magnets And Melodies

    Magnets And Melodies Member

    Nov 7, 2016
    I'm a millenial, and I'm all about authenticity, but it's not exactly something they can deliver nowadays. If it's not a real '59 from 1959 than it's not gonna be authentic. Reissues are amazing and are worth what they're worth because of how close they get - but they are replicas of originals.

    IMO, they should really start appealing to millenials. The age range is from late 20's to mid 30's (I'm 35) which is THE timeframe where many people start moving up the ladder and making more money, realizing more disposable income for things like this stuff. Our demographic is slowly becoming the one with the most buying power - but we haven't been raised on the same ideals and cultures that previous generations have. Gibson aren't appealing to this demographic. This video certainly exemplifies that.

    Case in point, I couldn't afford or justify a Gibson 5 years ago. Now I have 7. I have them because I've wanted one since I was a kid, and I find that they fit me like a glove - I have a huge love for them and always had.. now I've managed to attain them for myself...... but, Gibson the company have always urked me. There's always been this conflict where - I have a huge love for the guitars themselves for many many reasons, and they're the perfect fit for me (Custom Shops).... yet I have no attachment to the brand, and infact, have grown some general dislike for the brand and company - despite the fact that I wouldn't have the guitars I love so much without them.

    It's kind of like..... You know how bad Nestle is, but can't help the fact that Kit Kat's are your favorite chocolate bar.... will you never eat one again? Or can you seperate the product from the company? In the end that's the conflict that I've had for some time. I've been cautiously optimistic about the new leadership, but have seen a number of things to lower that optimism in the past few months... Not saying they can't turn it back, but they have to start listening to customers.
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
  3. mvsr990

    mvsr990 Supporting Member

    Jan 8, 2008
    I do wonder how valuable a hard clampdown on the IP on body shapes is - Fender lost the battle for the Strat body shape decades ago but regardless of who makes it the outline makes people (even non-players) recall "Fender" and in most instances, the fundamental desire of buyers is to eventually own a nice Fender product.

    Compare that to highly protective Rickenbacker, who've kept a strong lock on anything resembling their gear. They're incredibly niche - is part of that because they're unobtainable for a 12-year old or even a lot of 22-year olds and there is no low budget version (knockoff or if Rick did their own Squier)?
    OldHootOwl, Gevalt and presence like this.
  4. shredtrash

    shredtrash Supporting Member

    Dec 7, 2007
    Albuquerque, NM
    I can't see myself buying another Gibson guitar. They just don't make them like they used to. I've had too many with issues: twisted neck, crappy pots, humps where the neck meets the body, etc. I would LOVE to have a great Les Paul or SG but I just can't seem to find one. Unfortunate that they feel they have to posture like this. Let the product do the talking by making a quality product at a good price; not an overhyped, overpriced product that continually relies on heritage and nothing else.
  5. wetordry

    wetordry Member

    Mar 8, 2015
    virginia mountains
    If there's tape on the logo, is it really a gibson?
    Maybe they tape tokai and burny guitars....:eek:
    fabronaut, Jecht, uab9253 and 3 others like this.
  6. Tootone

    Tootone Member

    Sep 24, 2016
    However they do it, Gibson has every right to do it. Same with Fender.

    Here's the truth.

    You want to play great looking and sounding guitars but you think Gibson or Fender are sh**. Good for you. Go buy an Ibanez RG or Jem, buy a Godin, or Hamer, or PRS or Rickenbacker...

    But you don't do you?

    What you do is buy an SG or Les Paul copy. Or a Strat or a Tele copy. Then you come on here or YouTube or anyplace that gives you a voice and start spouting bleeding heart bull$%#! about how your new copy guitar is so much better than anything Gibson or Fender ever made.

    But there's no escaping the visible fact... you bought a copy of an iconic and superlative guitar... not any old "quality guitar". For those of you with so much hate to pour on Gibson and Fender - there is your own personal demonstration of hypocrisy right there.

    I say Go Gibson, Go Fender.... defend your legacy and business to the max... however you see fit.
  7. C-4

    C-4 Member

    Mar 23, 2009
    I love Red Bank, NJ! Florida now Europe later
    After reading through this thread, I went back and watched the video again.

    It's probably that I had a stern upbringing with catholic parochial school and military school, but I didn't get a feeling of Mark Agnesi being aggressive, and hard.

    I believe that some of you are reading too much into this video, just as on this forum, sometimes we get a bit too over-the-top with some topics.

    It wasn't made to "warn or scare" other builders, but rather to just let people know that this company wants to protect what they invented, developed, and worked hard to offer. That in itself is serious, so if Mark looked or acted that way, it was because of the seriousness of the situation.

    Obviously, Gibson recognizes that this stealing has been going on prolifically for a long time. Maybe this new team wants to put a stop to others making money by lifting Gibson designs and using them for themselves. How would any of you feel if you came up with a slogan to use in your business, and then after a few months, you saw your slogan being used by another company and they were taking business away from you? Yes, it's a poor example, but you get the point.
    And, you probably wouldn't take it lying down.

    So why should it be any different for someone, or some other company?

    I read about how patriotic some players here are wanting to buy only American made stuff. Well, Fender and Gibson are the very essense of what you are stating, yet you bash them or mock the fact that they have the balls to stand up for themselves?!
    Isn't that just being hypocritical?
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
  8. Jabby92

    Jabby92 Member

    May 14, 2019
    Yeah I agree with a lot of this. I see it all the time. "My PRS/ESP/Ibanez/Schecter blows the door off any Gibson" or "Gibsons are just overpriced". The thing is, Gibson is a brand and you do not need to buy a Standard or Custom shop model to part of the Gibson brand. As far as the USA lineup goes, you can get a Tribute model SG or Les Paul all within the $1000 or less ball park.. and with all the financing plans I think most people can afford that who have any reasonable job.

    The thing is, a lot of Les Paul and SG copies that I've seen are actually pretty good guitars and can sound and play well.. but they're almost always dipped in thick plastic poly, have cheap hardware/electronics and I just can't get into them. I would always be down to pay another $150-$200 for an entry Gibson over many of the copies/clones out there. All the USA Gibson's go through the PLEK process which IME offers a superior playing experience out of the box.

    In the end though it just comes down to what you like/prefer.. but I've never regretted ever buying my USA Fender, USA Gibson and now USA made Kiesel.
    C-4 likes this.
  9. Guitarworks

    Guitarworks Member

    Oct 8, 2007
    Wow, this is totally what Gibson does NOT need right now. A bully (though he claims not to be) sitting on his porch in a leather jacket cradling a Les Paul on his lap like it's a 12-gauge taking a threatening tone (though he claims to want to be helpful and accommodating) against those whom he sees as trespassers who have placed a toe from the sidewalk onto his little front yard lawn. First clear indication to me that we're not listening to a mastermind: The accusation of networks placing black tape over the Gibson logo to evade a supposedly 'inescapable lawsuit', when in fact, they're doing it to not give Gibson free advertising, and could just as easily have used some other brand guitar if the 'Gibson wrath' was truly a concern. Duh. I suggest you stop being a little angry belligerent man, stop trying to un-scramble the egg that history has already scrambled for you, and just quietly tend to the business of making quality instruments. That's all anyone is asking of you.
  10. MichiganEsquire

    MichiganEsquire Member

    Jul 29, 2017
    You see nothing wrong with the video because you were raised to be a man. Isn't it nice not to whimper at the wind and find "aggression" - whether micro, macro, or in the form of a poorly-made latte - everywhere?
    Baracus, Jecht, jimmyp1 and 2 others like this.
  11. CharAznable

    CharAznable Member

    Aug 26, 2008
    Leesburg, VA
    Just as I was warming up to Gibson
    cutaway likes this.
  12. flysky578

    flysky578 Member

    Sep 8, 2018
    100 points and a good noodle star!

    But the little Luthier would be easier to sue and couldnt defend himself, especially if people at forums would hype about his build quality.He would be the bigger threat for them

    Yep that 3+ gender theme was also in this NAMM video last year with the new ceo..first the films, then the videogames and now the guitars...all to pleasure sjw who would never buy anything like that just for that statement anyways..
  13. mvsr990

    mvsr990 Supporting Member

    Jan 8, 2008
    Smaller luthiers might be a lawsuit target at some point, but they're not the point of the video and they're certainly not a "threat" to Gibson - their production isn't a rounding error on Gibson's daily production. Chibsons get pumped out en masse and could actually steal a number of sales from Gibson and Epiphone.
    C-4 and Magnets And Melodies like this.
  14. Mikhael

    Mikhael Member

    Jan 2, 2013
    Play authentic... Buy a Heritage! After all, those guys are the ones that made the originals.

    I started out on Les Pauls and SGs. I now have no Gibsons (my #1 is a Hamer, and the #2 is a Godin), except for an S-1 that I use for experiments. Paid $100 for it. I will NOT be buying any Gibsons, especially after this nonsense. You've come up with nothing innovative since the 70s, and just about every manufacturer has passed you.

    No one can sue for infringement on body shapes, as other builders have been using these shapes for over half a century. That ship left quite a while ago.
    Original_Fire and Dr Bonkers like this.
  15. PatriotBadger

    PatriotBadger Member

    Dec 1, 2016
    I disagree, that's exactly who the targets will be. Gibson may be all puffed up about IP violations, but they are smart enough to know that enforcement across international boundaries, especially with countries that aren't part of multistate treaty or legislative bodies (such as China), enforcement is phoorking impossible. The only way they can get their foot in the door is on home soil, with importers or distributors that try to sell those copies. They cannot and will not stop production of them, unless they set up offices in the offending countries, assuming they even have effective IP protection laws. It's a fool's errand.
    uab9253, Average Joe and Relicula like this.
  16. Wrubird

    Wrubird Member

    Feb 21, 2019
    Gibson is going to sue Epiphone?
    JohnSword and jazzbludgeon like this.
  17. ChicagoMusicExchangeMatt

    ChicagoMusicExchangeMatt Member

    Apr 14, 2008
    top tier content in the comments:

    "Are they holding you hostage Mark Agnesi? Blink twice if you are in danger."
    fabronaut, Baracus, Matt Rain and 9 others like this.
  18. Kurt L

    Kurt L Member

    Aug 29, 2007
    Outer Austin, TX
    As long as we're piling on - the phrase Play Authentic consists of a verb modified by an adjective. It bothers me.
    Baracus, cutaway, Hofnarr and 4 others like this.
  19. skinvoyager

    skinvoyager Supporting Member

    Aug 30, 2012
    Cincinnati, OH
    Make me SERIOUSLY want to buy a Reverend.

    I work as a brand strategist. Gibson, please PM me. I can help.
    OldHootOwl likes this.
  20. billboneys

    billboneys Supporting Member

    Mar 24, 2008
    If the clones don't match Gibsons craftsmanship (or exceed it) there shouldn't be anything to worry about.
    Dr Bonkers and MusicalMan like this.

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