Gibson Super V CES

The Pup

The Pup

No Complexity Without Value
Messages
3,646
Bluedawg said:
I wondered when you would show up in this thread with your lovely Super V ....

I still say you should try a wooden bridge in that Le Grand ... if you still have it.


:banana
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I have tried three bridges in total (all wood) with unremarkable results. I've got nearly 50 years experience in seating bridges and I am not sure this is going to be the magic pill for this particular guitar.
 
Bluedawg

Bluedawg

Member
Messages
10,835
The Pup said:
I have tried three bridges in total (all wood) with unremarkable results. I've got nearly 50 years experience in seating bridges and I am not sure this is going to be the magic pill for this particular guitar.
Click to expand...


Dang .... sometimes it seems you just get a tone turd and there's nothing to do about

I guess I got lucky with my Le Grand ... mine sounds great.

:dunno
 
gitman

gitman

Member
Messages
997
The Pup said:
I have tried three bridges in total (all wood) with unremarkable results. I've got nearly 50 years experience in seating bridges and I am not sure this is going to be the magic pill for this particular guitar.
Click to expand...

hmmm, that is too bad .... sorry to hear that !
 
Patrick2

Patrick2

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1,317
The Pup said:
I have tried three bridges in total (all wood) with unremarkable results. I've got nearly 50 years experience in seating bridges and I am not sure this is going to be the magic pill for this particular guitar.
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If you've got 50 years experience in seating bridges . . . then I don't think that anyone is going to be able to tell you, or suggest something to you that you haven't already thought of or tried. But, I'm just curious . . . did you look at the under side of the top with a mirror? Have any of the parallel bracings or any of the kerfing loostened . . . or might have been poorly glued it the first place? If that beautiful arch top "just doesn't have it" as you say . . . it has to be attributable to more than just a dead piece of spruce wood. I realized that some sound boards do indeed sound fantastic . . . while others only sound "good". But, if it was my guitar, I'd be looking for answers. May I ask what state you live in?
 
The Pup

The Pup

No Complexity Without Value
Messages
3,646
Patrick2 said:
If you've got 50 years experience in seating bridges . . . then I don't think that anyone is going to be able to tell you, or suggest something to you that you haven't already thought of or tried. But, I'm just curious . . . did you look at the under side of the top with a mirror? Have any of the parallel bracings or any of the kerfing loostened . . . or might have been poorly glued it the first place? If that beautiful arch top "just doesn't have it" as you say . . . it has to be attributable to more than just a dead piece of spruce wood. I realized that some sound boards do indeed sound fantastic . . . while others only sound "good". But, if it was my guitar, I'd be looking for answers. May I ask what state you live in?
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The braces...et al are solid, I have a nice borescope and all is well. I keep my guitars between 45-47% +2/-3 RH.

The guitar is just average in my mind. I have a first year ('61 I think) Johnnny Smith and, although not an entirely fair comparison, there is little to compare. Maybe in time it will open up. The Le Grand top and back may be carved thicker for durability (or due to process variability), where a more delicately made instrument may be more favorable to some.

BTW, any "A" (and close to it) note makes the guitar feedback like crazy. I even swapped the neck pickup; I have a set of JS pickups I ordered from Gibson in the late '60s (cost me $169.00 for a Rhythm & Bridge set)--and it wasn't a spurious field emission-induced issue. The guitar just doesn't have it (a subjective measure most all guitarist understand, but have trouble conveying in words).

For me, I can strum a guitar hanging from the wall and tell (or at least hit an Em and know within one-sigma certainty that a particular guitar [with fresh strings]) is going to pique my interest or not.

Regardless, most of us can make anything work if motivated, I just find there are far more great guitars to be played than rising to the challenge to make a round-peg fit into a square-hole.

In my mind, it was the worst $7,600 I have spent on an instrument, although it may pay-off as an investment over time. So, if you see me selling it at TGP, you should definitely play it first!

There are very few guitars which I share with the "public," but my point was "try before you buy" and generalizations (even with the quasi lowly Super V) are just that; I sure dig mine for what it's worth.
 
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mrpc

Member
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3
Patrick2 said:
I think your estimated value of a Super V CES is about 50% too high. The most that even the best examples of these guitars will bring is around $5,000. Even that would be a stretch. They would not be considered "vintage" guitars . . . as opposed to being considered to be used guitars. It was a very unsuccessful experiment for Gibson, that's why they were dropped from the line so soon. Selling price is usually driven by collectability or desirability. The Super V CES, while a wonderful guitar, has neither. There is (or was, not sure if it's sold) a beautiful 1999 blond Super 400 CES at Lark Street Music that could be bought for under $6,000. The Super 400 CES is about 100 time more desirable. . . and resaleable that a Super V CES. I agree about the finger tail piece. I really dislike them strongly.
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Tokyo, Japan october 8th 2011

I just found a 1979 Super V in Shibuya (Tokyo) for 820000 yen
(about $9000), next to it a red 2000 L5 CES for about 500000 yen (about $6000). Oh, i get it : rarity equals desirability and 30 years old equals "vintage" in Japan. These guys are always a step ahead of us aren't they ? The store is called "Walkin' inc" owned by luthier Masaki Nishimura
in Shibuya-ku, Tokyo. Great collection of American and Japanese guitars
(d'Angelico, d'Aquisto, Gibson, Guild, Sadowsky, Heritage etc...)
 
corn husk bag

corn husk bag

Member
Messages
4,242
Patrick,
I like your style, you have a vintage type of outlook on things. It is called integrity and honesty! This thread is great, it exposes the chaff! I don't have any ties to any company, but based on how you have expressed yourself in this thread, I would certainly trust your statements made on guitars. In fact I am going to PM you on a particular Heritage model.

Kind Regards,
Steve
Patrick2 said:
I just now saw this. Wish I hadn't. Some of these posts question my character and I find that to be offensive.

Firstly, I don't "probably" know what I'm talking about... . I "definitely" know what I'm talking about. Next, while I definitely do profit from the sales of Heritage guitars . . . and love them dearly, if anyone thinks any of my posts are biased to that end . . . then, you haven't really read my posts with an open mind. Even as a Heritage rep, there is probably no bigger defender of the Gibson guitars coming out of the Custom Shop than I am. I just bought my second R9 . . . . (looks just like the Brock Burst). That's 4 of them now for me. An R4, an R6 and 2 R9s. I also just bought a brand new L5 Wes . . . yeah . . . finally found the right one. It should be here on Friday. That'll make it 7 Historic Collection Custom Shop Gibsons in my collection. So, don't even hint at biased. I'll tell you straight up where the positives and the negatives are from Heritage, just as I will from Gibson. And, it will be based upon experience, knowledgeability and honesty.

And to Mr. mrpc . . . . I never said the L5 Wes I looked at was over priced. I said it wasn't the right one for me.

Let's check our attitudes at the door when we enter this forum. It'll be a better place to be. Thanks . . . and peace.
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M

MarchSanity

Senior Member
Messages
139
yanez said:
yes,
I had already seen it, but I'm looking for the BJB model.

thanks
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What is the BJB model? I have a blonde "Master Model" from '92. Is that the BJB model? It looks exactly like the natural LeGrande models I have seen, only with 2 pickups.
 
Y

yanez

Member
Messages
6
MarchSanity said:
What is the BJB model? I have a blonde "Master Model" from '92. Is that the BJB model? It looks exactly like the natural LeGrande models I have seen, only with 2 pickups.
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your one is a SUPER V CES, with two routed 57 classic pickup;
the BJB is a floating pickup. some models were made with only the BJB pickup; more acoustic...
 
Danny W.

Danny W.

Member
Messages
998
yanez said:
your one is a SUPER V CES, with two routed 57 classic pickup;
the BJB is a floating pickup. some models were made with only the BJB pickup; more acoustic...
Click to expand...

Like this one I used to own:

d17a933b.jpg


Danny W.
 
M

MarchSanity

Senior Member
Messages
139
yanez said:
your one is a SUPER V CES, with two routed 57 classic pickup;
the BJB is a floating pickup. some models were made with only the BJB pickup; more acoustic...
Click to expand...

Correct, Super V CES.

What you are describing sounds like either a "Johnny Smith", which later became the Legrand, when ol Johnny signed up with Heritage.

Super Vs are rare guitars. Russell Malone and Steve Laury (where is that guy?) were notable Super V players. They are so rare George Gruhn is clueless as to how to sell them. Hint to George, add 20% to the price of a mint L5.
 
Y

yanez

Member
Messages
6
the legrand is 3" while the super V, like an L-5 is 3 3/8";
the LG is X braced and the super V is parallel braced
the LG has the tune-o-matic, the SV ebony bridge
and some other cosmetic difference
 
Danny W.

Danny W.

Member
Messages
998
d17a933b.jpg


MarchSanity said:
Danny, how does this differ from a Legrand? Larger headstock (Super 400 neck)??? I thought I knew my Gibson archtops well.
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The short answer is that my LeGrands are much, much nicer guitars.

The Super V BJB was an acoustically-braced, floater-equipped version of the Super V. The one I had sounded quite good acoustically and very nice amplified.

Differences between it and my LeGrands:

Woods on the SV were exceedingly plain, even unattractive. Woods on the LeGrands are quite beautiful.

Gibson's sunburst back then was also exceeding plain, even unattractive. The burst on my LeGrand is quite the opposite.

The center blocks on the LeGrand's inlays are abalone--they're pearl on the SV.

The SV had a volute. Although the volute on a Citation is a work of art, on the SV it was just an ugly, useless lump that made it harder to play.

Related to that, Gibson's necks back then were nowhere near as nicely shaped as they are on my LeGrands. Too much taper, not enough cheek..

As on a Johnny Smith, the LeGrand has a square edge at the treble end of the fretboard, with the pickup mounted flush to the fretboard.

The LeGrand has a much nicer pickguard, without the big, visible screwheads, and with the threaded rod that looks much more elegant than the plain bent metal support.

Legrand doesn't have a tone control.

LeGrand has a 1/4" output jack, SV was 1/8"

LeGrand has a smaller headstock that's better proportioned to the guitar.

The SV was built at a time when Gibson's quality just wasn't that good. If you compared my SV to one of my LeGrands directly, you'd see numerous places where the fit and finish are better on the LeGrands. The body proportioning and shaping of the LeGrands is also better.

Hope this helps,

Danny W.
 
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