Gibson True Historic 1959 v.s Original 1959

Discussion in 'Guitars in General' started by Ren007, Feb 19, 2018.

  1. GT40

    GT40 Member

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    People feel what they want to feel, hear what they want to hear and believe what they want to believe.
     
  2. Rod

    Rod Tone is Paramount Supporting Member

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    I put Grovers on my old 60 LP. Stayed in tune better
     
  3. 696

    696 Member

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    What he just said!
    They are different because they are different guitars.
     
  4. Surfreak

    Surfreak Member

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    I own a TH R9 and have played a handful of real Bursts, and spent quality time (at least 1 hr in a proper room, through great amps cranked up) with two of them.

    My TH is the best solid body guitar I have ever owned in 40 years of playing, buying and selling well over 100 guitars. However, most real Bursts, with the exception of one, were just better instruments, in terms of tone and playability.

    After many, many years of personal research into what makes these Bursts special, I have given up trying to find a comprehensive, fully rational explanation for it: in my experience, the hype is real.
     
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  5. GuitarsFromMars

    GuitarsFromMars Member

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    I spent a day with Ed Seelig (Silver Strings Music in St Louis) looking at his current stock (at the time) of vintage 'Bursts. I was only allowed to be so impressed. I got an education that day. Ed is a knowledgeable vintage guitar(read 'burst) guy. Haven't seen him in decades. He sold Joe Walsh at least one or two of them.
     
  6. korus

    korus Member

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    It's pretty much the same - no Fender CS can be mistaken for STOCK vintage Fender TONE WISE. These guys have neither vintage nor modern one to sell. It shows in the clip. And they are using their own tried and tested modern made Fenders, and admit they are inferior.

    Again, bear in mind, nothing to sell. Hence, no relativization of obvious - vintage timbre is superior. Case closed. Or not, if a person does not hear the difference. Many do not, so we will keep on our regular scheduled program going.
     
  7. Pinstripe

    Pinstripe Member

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    In truth, they're quite different. I'm fortunate to have a couple of both real vintage and TH models.
     
  8. Lotis

    Lotis Silver Supporting Member

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    What gets me is when the burst was first getting popular with Keith, Eric, Jimmy, Peter, Mike B, they were just a few years old!The were recently made used guitars.I first saw one in 1966 with Mike B. So it was 7 years old. Never had a real burst but I did have '57 GT with buckers and 2 '59 customs over the years. I have 2006 R9 that holds its own with any of them.
     
  9. bobeau

    bobeau Member

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    Passing off a conversion as being a real burst is flat out fraud, nearly as bad as passing off a really good copy - I've never heard of anyone doing that or getting confused about the difference between a real one. I'm sure there are fools who have been unwittingly taken over the years, but it's hard to do because of the $$ involved and the need for a proper appraisal to set the price.

    Good, really close to vintage accurate copies are in the $10k area. Conversions are ~$20k. Real bursts are an order of magnitude more, $150k+. Given this, you can see why conversions would be attractive - it's basically a refin w/ some woodwork and non-original period correct hardware, maybe some good repro plastics if necessary.
     
  10. Jon C

    Jon C Silver Supporting Member

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    A friend has years of experience with numerous real 50s Gibsons. The old ones vary.

    On playing my '01 R8 Historic (with Florance Voodoos) he said the top wasn't an exact righ carve but close, and the overall sound and feel were right there with the best actual '58-59 LPs he has played.

    Close enough for me , I won't chase Gibson's marketing trail to a "True Historic" but assume excellent examples would be similarly nice (they do vary).
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2018
  11. killer blues

    killer blues Member

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    An original was built on a production line and the best historics are probably painstakenly hand crafted. The only edge I can see is in the quality of the woods, as the best woods were abundant back in 59. Everything else that matters has been implemented into the best historics

    Edited to add: must have a Brazilian board or all bets are off imo
     
  12. fjrabon

    fjrabon Member

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    Heck, Page shaved the neck down to be thinner than even a 60s slim taper.
     
  13. 27sauce

    27sauce Member

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    No he didn’t, it was like that when he acquired it. Walsh had it done, along with the refinish.
     
  14. jens5

    jens5 Silver Supporting Member

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  15. davess23

    davess23 Member

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    I've seen really good players manage to make an SG or a 335 sound just like Bloomfield's burst. They do it better than I can with my '01 R8, so I suspect that not all those tones we're chasing live only in the guitar. I don't doubt that there's magic in at least some of those old LPs, but it still takes a magician to bring it out.

    The number of original bursts made isn't known but IIRC it probably didn't total more than 2,000 over their 3 years of production. It's a safe bet that for a variety of reasons a certain percentage are no longer intact-- as others have noted, they were just old guitars, and players had no qualms about swapping tuners, adding or subtracting pickups, shaving necks, drilling holes for crazy electronic experiments (hey, push this button to make it sound like a sitar!), adding whammy bars, trying to make them lighter, trying to make them heavier so they'd sustain forever, or just smashing the whole thing if they felt like it. Gibson has sold many times that number of Historics, and by and large they're reputed to be well made, good sounding guitars. And they're usually bought by people who take care of them. Even allowing for Gibson's notorious QC issues there should be at least as many great playing, great sounding Historics out there as there are original bursts. My 2 cents: unless you have money to burn, if you want a good burst, go find a good Historic.
     
  16. fjrabon

    fjrabon Member

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    He did an interview where he said he had it shaved. Though he may have been talking about his other 59 burst. He has two.
     
  17. 2HBStrat

    2HBStrat Member

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    They weren't "holy grail" instruments back then. Hard to believe now, but Les Pauls weren't successful.....nobody thought anything about changing them as they wanted to because they weren't valuable......they were in fact discontinued (changed) in favor of what became the SG body shape. One reason that all of our favorites used old Les Pauls is (1) they were cheap, and (2) because of Freddie King....
     
  18. Flogger59

    Flogger59 Member

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    I am going to generalize a bit about vintage vs reissue.

    Reissues often play better. They should, they're new guitars, compared to a half century of use. The sonic difference is that older guitars have a stronger fundamental, without as much of the fizz of newer guitars.


    That said, set me up with a pile of True Historics, and I could likely find one that did what the vintage ones do.
     
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  19. Flogger59

    Flogger59 Member

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    He shaved #2 to match #1. Virgil Lay did the first neck shave.
     
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  20. 27sauce

    27sauce Member

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    Page paid 3 times the price($1200) of a new Les Paul for a refin, shaved neck, repaired headstock example.

    They were no longer cheap by the time page was around to them.
     

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