Giving Up On Solderless Once And For All

Discussion in 'Effects, Pedals, Strings & Things' started by deadletteroffice, May 28, 2019.

  1. Miroslav L

    Miroslav L Member

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    Because it's cheaper.
     
  2. hippieboy

    hippieboy Member

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    I'll just leave this here...

     
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  3. bikeracr

    bikeracr Supporting Member

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    To the OP, I had the same problem. I eventually got tired and just invested the time and money I making my own soldered cables cut to length with Switchcraft 228 pancake ends, Mogami 2319 cable, and GmBH stubby plugs. I haven’t had an issue since. Good luck!
     
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  4. BearBryan

    BearBryan Member

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    It’s hard to believe that this many people have had problems with the EA SIS cables. I guess it is true that they are always building a better fool. Also, stop trying to relate problems with one system that uses a completely different method to another system. “Man my George L’s sucked so all solderless suck. Why would I even try Evidence cables? Unreliable solderless junk.” Screwing the core into the plug is about as bombproof as it gets. LOL at the airplane bit on the first page as well. Yet another TGP thread full of fail.
     
  5. jimijimmyjeffy

    jimijimmyjeffy Member

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    (Warning: off topic post)
    Hi love your cables.

    I have been wanting to tell you something for a long time. All my cables are yours btw, long, short and amp.

    Have a favor to ask that would help us both. (mostly you, long term)

    I really wish you could set some of these threads (definitely not this one, you are perfect here) straight that have such horrible debates on cables. Please bone up on all the physics and engineering, do pilot studies as necessary if they haven't been done, (or not but then be clear why you believe stuff etc) get your story and facts down cold, and come here to clear the air about the infinite charges that your marketing and everyone else's is deceptive BS from crooked corporations. Basically people believe cables are snake oil.

    No you can't shut up every idiot, but it is my strong belief that you could greatly impact the culture around cables here, and your brand image. I probably impact the culture here when I am armed with the facts, as a nobody, and you can too. I have personally watched long term conversations change permanently as a response to info I posted, or someone else posted.

    I am telling you so you can proactively anticipate the push back and prepare answers. I for one would greatly appreciate it. A little knowledge is dangerous and many are spewing trash. I get very tired of it.

    I would want neither overselling nor underselling! Just give your most solid and responsible (hopefully as scientific as possible)opinions, and specific reasons please. Otherwise you are vulnerable to the snake oil charges, which are made by otherwise smart people, too many to not matter IMO. You could end the trash permanently as far as your products and I would personally help you here every time it came up if you took the lead. I have plenty of scientific background to do so if you help.

    Sorry, really have wanted to tell you all that for a long time.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2019
  6. Timtam

    Timtam Member

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    Any serious discussion of the pros and cons of the different solderless designs needs to survey each design's common failure modes. For example, a given design may have a very secure means of fixing the central conductor to the jack tip, but limited protection against the shield shorting to the conductor. A failure of either renders the cable useless (until identified and fixed).
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2019
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  7. jimijimmyjeffy

    jimijimmyjeffy Member

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    GTFO that is too rational! :nono
     
  8. n9ne

    n9ne Member

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    I've never messed with solderless audio cables....but after 19 years in data networking, CATV, and telecom, I've seen my fair share of compression and crimp connectors. Some designs are better than others....but of the thousands of connector-related issues I've dealt with, the overwhelming majority were due to installer error.

    With that being said...some designs have such exact tolerances, it's unrealistic to think an average installer could make consistently good connections using only hand tools. For example, maybe the manufacturer guidelines call for 1/4" of exposed braid for shielding...but the design is such that 1/8" braid won't make a good connection and 3/8" could create a short or cause an improper crimp. A *good* installer can probably make consistently good connections with those tolerances....but average or below-average skills will result in a lot of bad connectors.
     
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  9. COYS

    COYS Supporting Member

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    I only have George L's cables and never have any issues.
     
  10. Silent Sound

    Silent Sound Member

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    Soldering is cheap and easy. I don't even understand why solderless cables exist. I taught myself to solder when I was like 10. Now I'll admit some solder jobs can be quite difficult. But a cable? If you can change your own strings, you can solder.
     
  11. stratotastic

    stratotastic Member

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    LOL - haven't heard much about the whole DIY cable fad for quite some time (showed up in my TGP "Trending Topics" feed today), but maybe I haven't been paying attention. It's interesting looking through this thread and seeing how people get so passionate and go to goofy lengths over a silly accessory. It's like obsessing about the lug nuts on your car--a meaningless distraction from anything real. Most of my cables sport logos of music stores long gone belly up (some 25+ years ago), and still going strong. No one's ever complained about my tone. :dunno
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2019
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  12. COYS

    COYS Supporting Member

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    Cause if I open my pedalboard case and see that a cable got torn, I can fix it in 60 seconds with common hand tools that I always have with me.
     
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  13. Hackdog69

    Hackdog69 Supporting Member

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    I have tried many types of cables, in my experience soldered cables suit my uses and needs much better..
     
  14. hunter

    hunter Supporting Member

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    I was officially "taught" to solder in my high school etech lab though I had been soldering stuff up for years prior. I had to do qual blocks that involved hundreds of lugs and wires over a range of sizes. Instructor didn't like the result? Back to bench, unsolder all the lugs on the test block and start over. We did that for a couple of weeks before we ever opened up a circuit. Today I have a decent Hakko station (a station is highly recommended but not cheap) and solder when needed. I am not great at it but I get it done. I still prefer solderless cables on my board. Sometimes personal preference wins.

    I am not sure soldering a reliable connection is easier than making a reliable solderless connection. Both require understanding and attention to detail. I know more folks I would rather teach how to make a good solderless connection than how to solder. And some I'd prefer to send straight to a tech.

    But it isn't a bad idea for anyone in the guitar music biz to have some basic soldering skills.

    hunter
     
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  15. CarlGuitarist

    CarlGuitarist Member

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    Yes, but I’m struggling with finding Evidencev Audio related threads, which was what I asked about
     
  16. mikendzel

    mikendzel Member

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    I am not particularly mechanically inclined (I just recently learned about "tipping" a soldering iron, after almost 2 decades of replacing tips after 1-2 uses; and I'll leave my kids swingset/playground thing to your imagination...), but I got the SIS cable system from Evidence when I landed a gig with a country artist and needed to build a fly-board, and I haven't had an issue in the almost 2 years since I started using them.

    I've swapped pedals a bunch over those 2 years, and sometimes will have to make a new cable when the old one wasn't long enough to reach the new pedal. I wouldn't hesitate to get more SIS.
     
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  17. realdealblues

    realdealblues Member

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    When I read these threads I can't help but think that cable seems to be one of the strangest things in the musician world.

    I've had tons of cables from good companies (Fender, Dimarzio, Monster) that were soldered start crackling or cutting out when flexing at the ends after a year or less of use. I've cut off the end and re-soldered some Switchcraft jacks and had them last years before doing it again and some have never done it again.

    I've used George L's for over 15 years on pedalboards and I'm switching out pedals weekly, as well as carrying half a dozen jumpers in a bag where they get tossed around and used for adding an additional "off board" pedal or two almost every gig and never once in 15 years have I had a failure or crackling. I've actually used George L's cable to make connection boxes and soldered them to jacks as well without issue.

    Years ago I bought the same Mogami cable that David Phillips said he was using on some stuff back in the HRI days for a small rack I was building, so I bought a bunch of Mogami (whichever number it was) in bulk with Switchcraft jacks and had more tone loss with every jumper I made than I could shake a stick at. I rewired the thing with George L's and didn't have an issue.

    I did a pedalboard a while back with those EBS Gold PG-10 Flat Cables and haven't had an issue with any of those and I think they sound great.

    I recently bought an Evidence Audio SIS cable kit just because I wanted to try something new on a new board I'm working on so I'm curious to try them out because I hear good things about them.

    I've had more issues with soldered cables then un-soldered and I know others including the original poster have had the opposite experience.
    Cables just seem to be one of those quirky things where you have good luck with some and bad with others, some cables last forever, some don't seem to last long at all...
     
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  18. Flatscan

    Flatscan Supporting Member

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    I only tried Lava and SIS on the solderless side. The SIS were, without hyperbole, heavenly in comparison.

    I have built a lot of SIS cables.

    I also have had good luck with EBS cables and their Knockoffs.

    Both styles have their plusses and minuses.

    The SIS have better tone on big boards sans a buffer.

    (Aside: neither EA nor EBS offer capacitance measurements which is cheesey.)

    If you add a buffer, the difference tonally is negligible. Buffers are small, cheap, and can be mounted under a board frequently.

    The key advantage of SIS is flexibility with decent reliability.

    The lower profile and improved reliability of the EBS is worthwhile in many contexts. I did have one bad cable that CME replaced immediately and for free. I've had no issues beyond that. The cables get kicked, jostled, pulled etc. and they haven't failed (yet).

    I've had good qa/qc with EA stuff and acceptable qa/qc with EA stuff. The plugs drifted quality-wise across many orders from Tone Factor, PGS (both now defunct), and others. Some readily form cables, some are a pita. The Monorail screw-in wire does break inside the plug on occasion. This is not easily undone (see chopstick repair method video - method does not work well) the plug is usually toast ($8 each).

    So pick your poison...

    Neither are perfect.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2019
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  19. CarlGuitarist

    CarlGuitarist Member

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    My only real gripe with the SIS stuff is also part of it’s strength: the solid copper core. It makes the cables stiff and I prefer working with more flexible cable.
     
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  20. Grenville

    Grenville Member

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    I've had those go bad too - bought six, two were unacceptably noisy. Noise went away when I replaced them with ones I'd wired up myself.
     
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