Going direct at church....POD or ?

[rpavich]

Hi,
I'm going to try again....going to play in the worship band at church...

I've got a Dr Z Z28 and Ghia which I love of course...

The church only "goes direct to PA" and who plays there generally sounds good.

Here is the problem..I don't have any equipment to go direct and the wife will kill me if I spend another 200.00 + on this....

is there something that will be adequate for me? I hate buzzy fizzy fake guitar sounds...argggg..

the options I've looked at seem to be

1.) SansAmp ( I had one a long time ago...not bad)

2.) Pod 2.0 (never owned one)

3.) Beringher VAmp (mixed reviews on harmony-central)

I realize I won't get the ultimate sound from these things but I want it passable enough that I won't vomit...

Also, If I'm going to do this, I wanna just walk in with a box in my hand, plug in, and play....

UPDATE: I just bought a SansAmp Tri-A.C from MF....I read the reviews and it seemed to be the best choice...

But that doesn't mean I don't still wanna discuss it

bob

 

[TomK]

I've been using a POD 2.0 for many years now as my "plug in and play" church box and I am very happy with it. I get sounds that work well and sit well in the mix. I often use my analog pedalboard with the POD to get a little more variation but I also have the standard Line 6 Floor board controller that does a good job.

I also have a Behringer V Amp Pro - it is more of a toy for me at this point. It has some very good sounds and excellent FX but I don't have the controller so it is pretty useless for me live but I have it sitting around in my office so I can plug in and mess with it. I think I paid right at $110 for it....so not bad.

 

[David-R]

The only downside to the Tri-AC is that it doesn't have any effects. Not a problem if you don't need them.

I did the POD direct (both POD 2.0 and PODxt) for a few years and I was never even close to happy with my tone.

 

[ASATClassic]

I've been down this road and then some. I'd recommend getting a small, low powered amp (8 watts or less). Get an amp stand and aim it back at you (like a wedge monitor).

Trust me, you'll be much happier. Even if you use a POD, it'll have to be coming through a monitor for you to hear. Might as well use a guitar amp.

 

[rpavich]

The only downside to the Tri-AC is that it doesn't have any effects. Not a problem if you don't need them.

No, I think they can add reverb at the board...

I did the POD direct (both POD 2.0 and PODxt) for a few years and I was never even close to happy with my tone.

Not a good sign, but then again; I'm looking for the "not so bad I puke" factor....not a "Dr-Z-in-a-Box" I don't have the cash for that...

I've been down this road and then some. I'd recommend getting a small, low powered amp (8 watts or less). Get an amp stand and aim it back at you (like a wedge monitor).

Well, again...cash is an issue and I haven't seen any amps of that wattage for the same price as a SansAmp...

Also, by my thinking; if I can't bring my amp, then I wanna just:

1.) Plug in a Low z cable
2.) Plug my guitar in
3.) Play

Not hook up tons of gear...

Bob

 

[MAZ]

Couple of thoughts from experience:

1. Go to a new church!!! LOL

2. Palmer DI (the one with the load box) -way out of your price range though, but worth mentioning.

3. Speaker in a box. I haven't used any of these but there are apparently a few good ones out there. Where the speaker is enclosed in a soundproof case and miced internally.

4. Small amp- Fender Pro Jr. It's PERFECT for church and sounds amazing. You'll have a second recording amp with it too. You CAN find them for just over $200 though they often are closer to $300.

Finally, if the church is making all you guys go direct, talk them into buying the gear for it. It's not necessarily a normal part of everyone's rig. Our old church had about 3 or 4 POD's when they started making us go direct, which, coincidentally is when I found a new church!! (just kidding)

 

[raz]

I currently use the POD XT Live, and I've been quite happy with it. No, it isn't perfect, but we work at such low stage volume that ANY amp would be problematic. And I've really come to like not having to lug amp, guitars, pedalboard, etc. to church.

But if you're looking at a $200 budget, I'd go with a Behringer V-Amp Pro and your pedalboard. I used one for a while and only switched because it drops out momentarily when switched with MIDI. I got mine used, perfect, for like $110.

Nevertheless, the V-Amp Pro has a killer Blackface Twin model that with pedals was very, very usable and controllable and it was really a very good platform for copping tones from the worship CD's that inspire our song selections.

If you don't mind lugging some pedals along, and don't mind not being able to directly switch the V-Amp pro with midi during a song, it's a really good option.

In my experience, you're just not going to get to be a Tone Monster at church. Even with low powered amps and wedge cabinets, you're going to be loud and it's going to be a struggle with other members of the team and the sound guys. Isolation cabinets are great in theory, but most churches that I've seen don't have a good enough FOH system or soundman to EQ it right, and without good EQ and mains speakers, an ISO cab is going to sound as awful and buzzy as anything else. And if you think the sound guy is going to let you set the EQ and then leave it alone, you're dreamin'.

There ARE exceptions...some churches just don't have a problem with stage volume. Others have really great sound men and equipment.

But I've worked in a lot of churches and most (by far) were running 4-bus Mackie boards through cabinetry of average quality and very little outboard capability...not to mention the sound guys were usually good-hearted volunteers with next to zero experience or musical skill. In the worst cases, they weren't so good-hearted and instead got delusions of grandeur and importance. Nothin' you can do in that case except nod and smile and make the best of it.


And in that case, you run direct and you find ways to make it work. The XT Live works for me. The V-Amp Pro did too.

Since you've gone ahead with the Tri A.C. a couple of supplements can be a big help. With the SansAmp stuff, actually with modelers too, I've found the VHT Valvulator can really help the feel and tone. I use the RC Booster in front of my XT Live and it does a good job loading the pickups which helps. A decent EQ on the back end before you send the signal to the house will also go a long way toward making you happier. My experience with the SansAmp stuff is it's still subject to the vagaries of the board and the sound guy, so if you can slip your own EQ (or some sort of cab simulation, but EQ is cheaper) in, you'll be happier.

Also, humbuckers work better in a direct environment than single coils, in my experience. They're more forgiving and less likely to get shrill.

Best of luck to you...and grace, and peace and all that good stuff...

R
A
Z

 

[Perry D.]

A V-Stack Tweedy with the gain knob off works great an a clean amp simulator going direct to the board. A Pro Jr. is still your best bet...nothing can take the place of tubes!

 

[R3deemed]

I use a Behringer Ultra-GI (the red one). The signal from the amp goes the the box direct to the board and the speaker load goes to my 2x12. It's OK. Stage volume can be an issue, but I like be able to hear myself comfortably in the mix.

 

[brightboy]

Originally posted by ASATClassic
I've been down this road and then some. I'd recommend getting a small, low powered amp (8 watts or less). Get an amp stand and aim it back at you (like a wedge monitor).

Trust me, you'll be much happier. Even if you use a POD, it'll have to be coming through a monitor for you to hear. Might as well use a guitar amp.

I agree!!!!

I use a Peavey Classic 30 slightly angled up at me with the rear of the amp firing into a
ClearSonic S4-2 Sorber acoustic baffle panel:

http://www.clearsonic.com/a2-4_amp_shield.html

http://www.clearsonic.com/sorber.html

Seems to work pretty well....

Cheers,

Jeff

 

[bobotwt]

How's it going? I also use and love the Behringer Ultra-G. I lead worship (sing and play lead) and it is a lifesaver. I used to use tube amps (Fender Blues Deluxe and GT Soul-o 45) with my pedalboard, and I still do when I play out. But as you guys know, in most churches, its just not feasible to get a tube amp cookin' at the levels they want you to play at.

With my pedalboard, I get very close to the same sound with the ultra-g that I got with my amps set for a blackface type clean pedal-base. Of course, a good tube amp has much better tube and speaker compression and feel that just can't be emulated. But you're not getting a great deal of that at the volumes that most churches have going. If you have some decent pedals that sound good with a clean amp, they'll sound good with this. And its only $35. Every guitar player should have one even if for a backup amp.

I've been learning how to work in these low to mid volume church situations for a few years now and I've found some solutions. Email me if you have some questions. Take care.

Josh

 

[rpavich]

UPDATE:

After reading the advice on this thread I cancelled the SansAmp Tri-AC and got the V-amp.

For $99.00 it will probably do the job....and the sound will suck compared to a regular tube amp but the ease of just sitting down/plugging in/playing is a selling point...

I'll let you know when I get it and if I like it....

bob

 

[Twin63]

I used a POD for a couple of years at church, although I never ran it direct (I ran it through the power amp of my Fender Stage 112SE). I had a few patches I liked that sounded pretty good, at least to me. I'm sure the V-Amp will be adequate for your needs. I think that we as guitarists constantly search for the best tone possible, while 99% of the congregation probably doesn't know, or care, anything about guitar tone. I don't mean that we shouldn't give God our best but that we should do the best with what we are given. I'm sure your congregation will think your tone is great! BTW, what part of WV are you from? I lived is southern WV for 34 years.

Keith

 

[drbob1]

I've never been happy with the POD sound (the gear not the band I've been using a Roland VG8, which sounds really good and reacts well, but it's not an amp and it's more than $200.

I've kept a Sansamp (the old version) as a backup in my gig bag for years, and on the rare occaisions when my amp has gone down have gotten complements on how it sounds. I set it for a clean Fender sound, then push it with my usual pedalboard. You do have to hook it up to a direct box since there's no XLR output, but it does sound and feel like a real amp.

Unfortunately if the rest of the band is going direct, even a 10w tube amp is likely to be too loud...

 

[mentoneman]

i am the soundman at our church. i've mixed for hundreds of gtr players and have been playing gtr for 20+ years.


i personally tried using a POD v2.0 to downscale from a triaxis rack and i could never get into it onstage, even when plugging into a small fender combo.

i had a vamp and didn't think it was very convincing, compared to the pod.

from a FOH perspective, the rackmount POD xt is a pretty good sounding device and a worthy DI solution....the floorboard version may be cool for your live needs.

the Vox tonelab floorboard thing is also pretty nice and has better vintage clean and low gain tones than the POD, but the POD has the modern clean and super distortion sound advantage.

the best overall DI tones i've heard is the Boss GT-5 or 6 floorboards...the 6 is the one with the tube in it.

the reduced "tube realism" compared to the vox and POD are not as apparent live as they may be in the studio, it cuts really well in the mix, and the Boss fx are superior to the other boards.

 

[JohnLutz]

Anyone compared the Zoom G2 to the current crop of modellers? It's cheap and is supposed to have a next generation processor.

John

 

[justicetones]

OK I am so sorry I am late to the party. I speak from experience on this one as well as many of you seem to also. Going direct sucks in my opinion BUT sometimes it is the only option. One church that I play at sometimes has no stage volume and all in ear monitors. I usually put my amp off stage now but had to contemplate the nasty option of direct. In the studio and when I traveled I used a Mesa V-Twin pedal. They are discontinued but plentiful on ebay for 200-300 dollars. I have also used this in front of my single channel amps with great results.

The V-twin has a switch to select between the console output and the headphone output mode and a special separate 1/4" output. I have used a POD for all of the effects at the same time. Plug into the POD, set it for amp and then plug that into the Mesa V-Twin pedal.

There are three channels and you can easily footswitch between two, and if you have a light and 10 1/2 or smaller shoe size you could get all three. The thing sounds better than any POD I have heard and I have owned and tried them. POD's can be a useful tool and have their place in the equation, but I have found in my experience that they can not replace an amp for someone that is used to an amp sound. It is the speaker interaction and the analog factors that are the difference. I would even say that for the V-twin pedal but to me they sound the closest to a real amp if going direct.

Chris

 

[royd]

I'll add another opinion even though you already made your choice.

a Roland Amp Factory...

I've compared them to the POD's, behringer and other modelers and they just sound more authentic.

There are no effects so you need your stomp boxes but you can set one amp model in memory and another on manual and switch between the two and a by-pass to the PA for essentially three channels.

The downside is that setting the amp in memory and getting the three volumes in the same ballpark is tricky. Still, each of the models sound good. They clean up nicely when you back off your volume too.

I use mine as an OD sometimes with an amp or direct to the board or for recording.

royd

 

[raz]

Originally posted by justicetones
In the studio and when I traveled I used a Mesa V-Twin pedal. They are discontinued but plentiful on ebay for 200-300 dollars. I have also used this in front of my single channel amps with great results.

The V-Twin is oft overlooked as a high-gain pedal; but in fact, it can do a really nice Fenderish clean tone if you're willing to learn how to use it. It's a lot more versatile than it gets credit for, especially if you try dropping lower gain preamp tubes in it. I had the rackmount version (has it really been almost ten years ago? Yowzah) and with a Mesa 20/20 it's a dynamite little rig.

So, yeah, it's definitely a workable option...

R
A
Z

 

[justicetones]

The V-Twin is oft overlooked as a high-gain pedal; but in fact, it can do a really nice Fenderish clean tone if you're willing to learn how to use it. It's a lot more versatile than it gets credit for, especially if you try dropping lower gain preamp tubes in it

yeah I still own the rackmount version also and have a simul class 395 for the power amp. I know we are getting old. I bought them brand new. I was amazed though at how good the V-twin pedal sounded plugged in direct. On the clean sounds you don't really miss the speaker sound and on the dirty it is only marginally noticable when compared to other DI options.

Chris