Going stereo, advice please

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by JimH, Jul 12, 2008.

  1. JimH

    JimH Member

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    apologies for the cross post, seemingly more and amp than FX question...

    I play in a covers band, the other guitar player recently quit so i want to give as full and interesting sound as possible - judicious use of effects being in that remit. I use amps with no FX loop and simulated DIs or palmer PDI-09 to get to the desk.

    My plan is to put my mod/delay/reverb FX entirely after my amp. At this stage I have no money to buy a new unit for this.

    ...so it's existing basic pedals - nothing fancy BOSS and Marshall

    ...or into PODxt with amp sims shut off and using only FX.

    ...OK, only my DD-6 has stereo inputs, so I'll basically only get 2 stereo FX if I go that route - the DD6 and the one before it - however the one before it is a 6 in 1 mod pedal and maybe all I need.

    I realise I won't hear the fx out of my amp on stage - that's OK.

    Any of this sound like a good or bad idea? as it is everything is going in the front of the amp, so no stereo and not particualrly great sound as going straight into the preamp.

    thanks in advance
     
  2. Big Boss Man

    Big Boss Man Member

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    How were you planning to put the FX entirely after the amp? Is this a line out from the amp or a line out from the mixer? Pedals are designed to work with an instrument level signal, not a line level signal. A POD XT Pro can work with both a line level and instrument level signal though. If you have two amps, you can also put the FX up front.
     
  3. JimH

    JimH Member

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    Adjustable line out or palmer speaker box - so going down to instrument level to use the pedals is not a good idea?
     
  4. Big Boss Man

    Big Boss Man Member

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    You would likely experience noise, distortion, and/or a loss of upper frequencies. Radial engineering makes a device ( http://www.radialeng.com/di-xamp.htm ) to take the line level signal back down to instrument level. You would also need a direct box to bring the pedal output back up to line level. You also need to do this for both of the stereo channels. You are better off with some sort of rack effect (POD XT Pro or other) that can handle a line level signal if you must have the effects after the amp.
     
  5. JimH

    JimH Member

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    Thanks - pod it is I suppose. I can see the issue with bringing levels down then up - just wasn't sure if pedals could handle it or not.

    Do you think this is a bad idea in general? my thinking is that I've got no option to have two amps on stage, no way - my amp doesn't have a loop, so this seems the way to go - both in order for the FX to sound alright and for the stereo effect to happen.
     
  6. Big Boss Man

    Big Boss Man Member

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    I love stereo setups. Personally I go with two amps and the FX up front, but stereo through a POD and PA will sound good as well.
     
  7. JimH

    JimH Member

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    So what do you use it for? How do you think it benefits your sound?
     
  8. stratzrus

    stratzrus Philadelphia Jazz, Funk, and R&B Supporting Member

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    I think the sweet spot will be quite narrow and few if any will hear true stereo out of your proposed rig. Depending on where a person is standing he is likely to hear one amp or the other, not both in stereo.

    I played a "dual mono" rig for years to fatten up the sound and increase the soundstage, but the limited time I spent with a true stereo rig proved to be more effort than it was worth. The minute you begin to move around on stage, even you won't hear the stereo.
     
  9. JimH

    JimH Member

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    The whole point is stereo into the PA - I'll be mono on stage. We go for minimum onstage volume and have the PA master wherever appropriate.
     
  10. Big Boss Man

    Big Boss Man Member

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    I use two different amps with various pedals. I especially like the Boss DC-2 for stereo imaging. Two different amps helps make the stereo imaging more discernable. A single amp with a POD would be more dependent on the position of the speakers and the listener.
     
  11. mitch236

    mitch236 Member

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    If you want stereo through the PA why don't you let the mixer do it? If you trust your soundman, things like reverb, delay and some other effects could be added to the mix. After all, making you sound good up front is the soundman's job!
     
  12. JimH

    JimH Member

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    thanks - bet that sounds great.


    Why? I don't think my amp carries to the room very much - and if so would be the dry in the W/D/W sandwich. The punters pretty much just hear the PA - which has full stereo effects.

    ...if we had one I would.
     
  13. Axekisser

    Axekisser Member

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    Here's what I did: Out of my pedal board (which is stereo delays and verb) to two H&K Red Box Pros. Took the left side "thru" output to my onstage amp. The speaker sims are stereo so those went to an onstage small Behringer mixer. The mixer had onboard reverb and I added a small multi-efx to use in the other mixer send. The mixer output went to the house system. FOH gets a stereo output and I had my onstage amp. Works well and all it cost me was a couple of speaker sims and a small mixer. This can even be used to monitor your sound on headphones if desired.
     
  14. JimH

    JimH Member

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    OK I'm nearly there with that one... but does that mean you have no amp in your chain to FOH? - ie pedals into a speaker sim?
     
  15. Axekisser

    Axekisser Member

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    Yes exactly! My amp acts as a monitor and of course some of the sound gets to the audience. You could mic the amp and get that to your mixer. You would have the L/R be the speaker sims with EFX and the amp signal be the "center." Submix those to the house and do the blend from your submixer. I've done this and it works well. Just watch for any phase cancellation.
     
  16. Rod

    Rod Tone is Paramount Silver Supporting Member

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    Get 2 dissimilar amps...a Badger and a Budda 18 say,,,run them both together at the same volumes all the time...at the end of your FX board out your reverbs and delays last, run the in stereo, and go into both amps,,,,breathtaking results
     
  17. JimH

    JimH Member

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    ...so where does your amps tone come from?
     
  18. Axekisser

    Axekisser Member

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    My amp gets its signal from the left side feed. The H&K Redbox Pro has a "thru" jack. My amp sound is the left side of the stereo. That is why you have to blend it in. Most of the FOH sound is the stereo mix from the amp sims with a little of the left side amp sound blended in.
     
  19. JimH

    JimH Member

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    ah amp sims - sorry missed that, are they on the pedal board then?
     
  20. Axekisser

    Axekisser Member

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    I keep them off the board as I have two boards I gig with. Just cable to them and then to the amp or house sound.
     

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