Good cheap Gobos?

Teleking

Silver Supporting Member
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Want to try to record one of my bands live in the room. Need to find a way to block some sound for separation. Not handy with tools so don't want to build. Ideas? thanks
 

Nebakanezer

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If you have plenty of think blankets/quilts and extra mic boom stands, take the mic stands and form a T and drape the blankets over them. Or borrow some mattresses and build a fort.

Edit: it takes a lot of money to get isolation, the above is to just get you a little separation. Take the time to play around with placement. Amps in closets or other rooms is something to consider, give everybody headphones and stick them in the room with the drummer.
 
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Teleking

Silver Supporting Member
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2,966
If you have plenty of think blankets/quilts and extra mic boom stands, take the mic stands and form a T and drape the blankets over them. Or borrow some mattresses and build a fort.

Edit: it takes a lot of money to get isolation, the above is to just get you a little separation. Take the time to play around with placement. Amps in closets or other rooms is something to consider, give everybody headphones and stick them in the room with the drummer.
I've thought about the blankets thing, and I've tried it once without much success. Most worried about bass bleeding into the drum mics. Anyone had much success with the blankets solution? The band is loud, and that's what makes it difficult.

Thanks
 

Uncle Pat

Member
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640
Might be a tough task, but I would certainly apply some above-average HPF's to all the drum mics, esp overheads.
 

335guy

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5,232
Yeah, if the bass player plays loud and his amp is anywhere close to the drums, you're gonna get bleed. HPF on the drum mics, except kick of course. Best solution is to have the bass direct and not use an amp. But then everyone needs to use a headset.
 

Meriphew

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7,392
Blankets are not going to give you separation. To get separation you're going to need mass. I had one of those pro built vocal isolation booths (4x4) for a few years, and it weighed close to a thousand pounds.
 

Crowder

Dang Twangler
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I agree with aggressively high-passing the drum mics. Even better would be to have the bass go direct and let everyone hear it in their headphones instead.
 

Rex Anderson

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5,066
No such thing as good and cheap gobos unless you can build them yourself. Get into modelling and record everything direct except drums.

Get basics with everything and then overdub with live amps.
 

335guy

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5,232
Get into modelling and record everything direct except drums.

Get basics with everything and then overdub with live amps.
I just did this on a project. Bass direct, keys direct, guitar was direct BUT, the engineer was having some kind of problem and all my guitar tracks had to be re-done. Kinda pissed me off, because at 1st, he kept insisting it was my guitar or cable. Then later he realized he was having some kind of issue with his DI. Whatever. But not trusting the engineer's ability to get a sound I liked, I brought in a tube amp and used my pedal board. He simply miked it and away we went. Zero problems. BTW, the drums were in a separate iso room. We all could see each other via cctv.

The downside to re-doing/overdubbing everything, you no longer get that same interaction with a live band. But I've recorded enough to have learned how to "play along" to tracks and still get some feeling and emotion going. It's something you learn to do.
 

Teleking

Silver Supporting Member
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No such thing as good and cheap gobos unless you can build them yourself. Get into modelling and record everything direct except drums.

Get basics with everything and then overdub with live amps.
This kind of defeats "live in the room." That's how we will record. I've done records both ways, live and single tracking, but I prefer live. Just looking for the best way to attack it.
 

335guy

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5,232
There is just no way you will get any separation/isolation with everyone live in the same room, especially if they're playing loudly, and especially the bass guitar amp. Everything will bleed and leak into everything. To reduce the bleed and leakage, you have to isolate as much as possible and play quieter. This is the way it's been done for decades. For drums, either an iso booth or surrounded by gobos. Electric guitars use small, low wattage amps and gobos. Bass is direct. Acoustic piano in iso booth or covered with packing blankets and the lid closed. Singer in an iso booth. Electric keys direct. Horns overdub later or iso booth. And everyone wears headsets.
 

loudboy

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27,335
Office partitions. You can even get ones that are half window, so you can see each other.

Go to a used office furniture place and make them an offer... Or if you poke around, you may score some for free.



They work like these:

 

Teleking

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
2,966
There is just no way you will get any separation/isolation with everyone live in the same room, especially if they're playing loudly, and especially the bass guitar amp. Everything will bleed and leak into everything. To reduce the bleed and leakage, you have to isolate as much as possible and play quieter. This is the way it's been done for decades. For drums, either an iso booth or surrounded by gobos. Electric guitars use small, low wattage amps and gobos. Bass is direct. Acoustic piano in iso booth or covered with packing blankets and the lid closed. Singer in an iso booth. Electric keys direct. Horns overdub later or iso booth. And everyone wears headsets.
I'm not stupid enough to believe there will be no bleed. Of course there will be. I'm just trying to minimize it. The idea is we want the record to sound very live. We're willing to sacrifice sonics for vibe, as long as it's not too much of a sacrifice. We're trying to capture the sound of the band live in a room. You're going to have to make some large sacrifices to do that, and we're OK with that, but we're just trying to minimize the sacrifices so we can get what we want. This is very much a garage band, and we are very much after a garage band sound, but we also want the ability to mold things into something sonically workable.
 

1radicalron

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2,055
Forget about isolation. The room is your friend. The Drums are the only instrument without a vol control. Have the Drummer play solo in the room, to set sound and levels. Then have the rest of the band adjust there amp vol control - to not overpower the drum sound in the room. Also - try putting the drummer in the center of the room. As the room itself, is part of the drum sound. For recording: Use as many mics as needed for the drummer. Overheads are critical, and a decent pair of condenser or ribbon mic's are needed.
Close mic all the guitar amps separately. Use hypercardiod mic's. Mic the Bass amp, and take Bass DI as well. Use as many recording input tracks as possible.
 

loudboy

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27,335
I'm not stupid enough to believe there will be no bleed. Of course there will be. I'm just trying to minimize it. The idea is we want the record to sound very live. We're willing to sacrifice sonics for vibe, as long as it's not too much of a sacrifice. We're trying to capture the sound of the band live in a room. You're going to have to make some large sacrifices to do that, and we're OK with that, but we're just trying to minimize the sacrifices so we can get what we want. This is very much a garage band, and we are very much after a garage band sound, but we also want the ability to mold things into something sonically workable.
Guitar amps/cabs can be baffled using packing blankets and placement.

Have the bassist use a smaller cab and aim it right at his head - put it at ear level if you can. This will keep it from interfering as much w/the drums.
 

jmoose

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4,800
The band is loud, and that's what makes it difficult.
Then the band collectively needs to pull it in. Rule #1 of tracking without headphones? Don't put "bad sound" into the room.

If you're not handy with power tools there really are no "good & cheap" gobo's. Used office dividers can work, sometimes...

Past that much of your isolation is going to come from having everyone dialed into what's happening in the room, as in amp placement... followed by self volume control, and not to the exclusion of having a solid mic cabinet to work through. Microphone choice and placement is nearly everything. You'll have to spend some time experimenting.

I do a lotta tracking in this style, rarely have an issue unless someone wants to play so loud that they start overpowering the room. Actually just wrapped up tracking my own band in this method a few weeks ago. Bassist was using a 350 watt head and 4x10 about 10 feet, maybe not even that from the drums. Vocals on a monitor wedge, absolutely no problems and we're going to retrack most all of the vocals. Bleed, if any is negligible.

Past that this thread contains some good time proven ideas for mic and amp placement;

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/i...-stuff-aka-how-to-record-a-rock-band.1452122/

Read that through a few times and try to absorb "what" you should be listening for when selecting and placing microphones.
 

talpa

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
1,018
Office partitions. You can even get ones that are half window, so you can see each other.

Go to a used office furniture place and make them an offer... Or if you poke around, you may score some for free.


They work like these:

Who is that , Page @ Olympic (burst on bar stool) ? regardless; I love old studio shots of the pros - lots to learn re. mike placement.
 
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jmoose

Member
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4,800
Who is that , Page @ Olympic (burst on bar stool) ? regardless; I love old studio shots of the pros - lots to learn re. mike placement.
Yes & yes. There are or at least were, larger & higher res copies of this & other photos from that session floating around at one point. Pretty sure I have them on an old hard drive around somewhere. I also have scanned blueprints for the original gobo's used at Abby Road back in the day... which are pretty far removed from simple office dividers.

What's funny about the microphone placement is that its really easy to see what they were using and where those mics were placed. Lots of condensers, which for one thing kinda kills "modern" theory I see on forums which is that condensers can't and shouldn't be used on guitar cabs... especially loud cabinets. Ok!!

Also the drums & the "Glyn Johns" thing. Not sure who was actually behind the desk and placing mics for the sessions in those Zep photos... it may or may not be him. But generally we'll call this "minimal miking" or "English miking" since it was a common technique used back then by many, many people not just exclusively Glyn.

Easy to note the placement of the side & overhead mics vs what you see on Utoob or forums where probably 90% of people are wrong & goof it up. Overhead is way high, centered over the drums. Side mic is basically right on the floor tom, not a few feet away out in space like I commonly see. Chances are beyond good the "FOK" or "front of kit" mic was pulled away for the acoustic overdub.

If anyone wants to learn more about old-school miking read the link in my above post. It was written by an "old guy" (Fletcher @ Mercenary Audio) who learned it all from even older, and some now dead guys. I've found it to be invaluable through the years... YMMV.
 
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cubistguitar

Member
Messages
5,850
I found a number of old office partitions, they were carpeted and had foam inside, nice stuff to minimize office noise. They work wonders, but loud drummers can screw it up still. Look out for offices closing, nothing is worth any money at that point, you may get them because you are willing to haul them away.
 




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