Goodsell 17 with 2X10 speakers...

Joey Steed

Member
Messages
12
Okay folks. I'm hoping Mr. Goodsell will chime in here but if not I still need some advice. I have previously asked a question or 2 about my Goodsell amp on this forum a few months ago. To me, My amp sounds fizzy and not as nearly as sweet as other Goodsell's I have heard. I bought this amp online just because it was A Goodsell -- without ever even hearing it. I have tried and tried to get a nice sound out of this but I just cant seem to get there. Its okay but I know it can be better. My amp is the Goodsell 17 with 2x10 speakers (signed by Richard on 12/16/16). It has 3 knobs, Gain, Tone, and Volume (no reverb and no tremolo). It has 5 tubes: 2 12ax7's, 2 el84's and a Rectifier. I have swapped out the EH pre-amp tubes (I guess they are both pre-amp tubes, i never could get confirmation from the man) with some tubes I retrieved from an old Fender Showman Blackface head (I'm not sure what they are -- i can just make out the 12ax7 label but i see no manufacturer's name). I really could not tell much of a difference. I purchased the rectifier tubes Mr Goodsell talks about on his video Blogs. I tried both the 5y3 (is that the correct number?) and the long one. I really did not notice much of a difference. Maybe a bit of an improvement using the 5y3, but not much. So now I'm looking at the speakers. According to Mr. Goodsell, the speakers I have aint the ones that came with it. It has an Eminence 1028 and a 1058. If I am not mistaken, Mr Goodsell said it originally had a Ragin Cajun and a Copperhead, both Eminence speakers. I have always been partial to Ceramic and not Alnico mags. So, with that said, I am looking at using maybe a Celestion Vintage 30watt or a Greenback. Okay, here's my question(s): Should I go with the Celestions or should get the speakers that originally came in this amp (Ragin Cajun and a Copperhead)? or should I go with something else? I play mainly late 60's early 70's style Rock and blues. There's a 10" Celestion ?Vintage? at Guitar center for around $38. The price suggests a cheap, made in China Speaker. Wondrer how it sounds? I am open for any and all suggestions. Thank you all!
 

Phil M

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
11,604
Cool amps, I want one. I suppose it could be tubes but it’s hard to say without hearing it myself. Speakers - who knows. Same deal.

Just some random thoughts before you start buying replacement parts, etc.

if you’re not used to EL84s, they can seem pretty different from other amps - especially at very low volumes. That same thing that sounds kinda brittle or fizzy is what gives them their sound - as you turn up the volume and get the tubes and speaker working, the mids and bass fill in. Ahhh, love that sound.

The Goodsell has a good master, but setting the master super low and the gain high is a recipe for fizz. Experiment with higher master and lower gain settings.

OK, back to tubes. Many EL84 circuits run really hot and push the power tubes. They get munched quicker. So that, combined with the quality of new production tubes, could be the culprit. IME, this happens gradually and the tge amp slowly starts to sound harsh until one day you’re like “yuck!” :eek:
 

slider313

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
8,207
I'm going to guess those speakers don't match up well with the circuit. If it's my amp, I grab a pair of Celestion Greenback 10's.
 

jiml

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
10,861
Call Richard, he is a wonderful man and will make sure that you get what you want out of that amp.

I have a Custom 33 (same preamp, just more power amp tubes) and "fizzy" is not a descriptor I would ever use for it.
 

Vaibhav Joshi

Member
Messages
2,460
You have the right to passage, owning a Goodsell 17.
Hopefully, Mr. Goodsell will chime in.
He responded kindly to one of my posts but that was because I was spreading misinformation about their amps :facepalm
 

jnovac1

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
6,414
Okay folks. I'm hoping Mr. Goodsell will chime in here but if not I still need some advice. I have previously asked a question or 2 about my Goodsell amp on this forum a few months ago. To me, My amp sounds fizzy and not as nearly as sweet as other Goodsell's I have heard. I bought this amp online just because it was A Goodsell -- without ever even hearing it. I have tried and tried to get a nice sound out of this but I just cant seem to get there. Its okay but I know it can be better. My amp is the Goodsell 17 with 2x10 speakers (signed by Richard on 12/16/16). It has 3 knobs, Gain, Tone, and Volume (no reverb and no tremolo). It has 5 tubes: 2 12ax7's, 2 el84's and a Rectifier. I have swapped out the EH pre-amp tubes (I guess they are both pre-amp tubes, i never could get confirmation from the man) with some tubes I retrieved from an old Fender Showman Blackface head (I'm not sure what they are -- i can just make out the 12ax7 label but i see no manufacturer's name). I really could not tell much of a difference. I purchased the rectifier tubes Mr Goodsell talks about on his video Blogs. I tried both the 5y3 (is that the correct number?) and the long one. I really did not notice much of a difference. Maybe a bit of an improvement using the 5y3, but not much. So now I'm looking at the speakers. According to Mr. Goodsell, the speakers I have aint the ones that came with it. It has an Eminence 1028 and a 1058. If I am not mistaken, Mr Goodsell said it originally had a Ragin Cajun and a Copperhead, both Eminence speakers. I have always been partial to Ceramic and not Alnico mags. So, with that said, I am looking at using maybe a Celestion Vintage 30watt or a Greenback. Okay, here's my question(s): Should I go with the Celestions or should get the speakers that originally came in this amp (Ragin Cajun and a Copperhead)? or should I go with something else? I play mainly late 60's early 70's style Rock and blues. There's a 10" Celestion ?Vintage? at Guitar center for around $38. The price suggests a cheap, made in China Speaker. Wondrer how it sounds? I am open for any and all suggestions. Thank you all!
on the amp-turn the volume up turn the gain down-if it’s too bright turn the tone knob.
on the guitar-back the volume (s) down and use your tone knob(s)
 

Joey Steed

Member
Messages
12
What were you playing before you got the 17?
This is the first quality amp I have owned for quite a while. Here's a list of the Amps I have owned since 78: 68 Fender Blackface showman, in the 80's I had a 70's Marshal 50watt head with 8X10 celestion filled Marshal cab, then it was a Reverend HellHound 40/60 combo, Now I own a Backstar ht20 (this amp sounded muddy but i changed the speaker to an old 12" Celestion 30 watt speaker and the sound is much better but it still not a quality amp -- at least I don't think so) and now I own the Goodsell 17.
 

Joey Steed

Member
Messages
12
on the amp-turn the volume up turn the gain down-if it’s too bright turn the tone knob.
on the guitar-back the volume (s) down and use your tone knob(s)
I have tried every position imaginable. Yes It sounds better with gain down and the volume up and the tone at about 11 o'clock, however; it just does not get to glory land. I recently added a Earthquaker Plumes Overdrive Pedal and I must say it really screams but there's just something a little off.
 

Joey Steed

Member
Messages
12
Call Richard, he is a wonderful man and will make sure that you get what you want out of that amp.

I have a Custom 33 (same preamp, just more power amp tubes) and "fizzy" is not a descriptor I would ever use for it.
I sent Richard an email a couple of weeks ago but I never got a reply. I know he's a busy man these days so maybe he just has not had the time. In all fairness, he has answered my emails in the past.
 

Joey Steed

Member
Messages
12
Cool amps, I want one. I suppose it could be tubes but it’s hard to say without hearing it myself. Speakers - who knows. Same deal.

Just some random thoughts before you start buying replacement parts, etc.

if you’re not used to EL84s, they can seem pretty different from other amps - especially at very low volumes. That same thing that sounds kinda brittle or fizzy is what gives them their sound - as you turn up the volume and get the tubes and speaker working, the mids and bass fill in. Ahhh, love that sound.

The Goodsell has a good master, but setting the master super low and the gain high is a recipe for fizz. Experiment with higher master and lower gain settings.

OK, back to tubes. Many EL84 circuits run really hot and push the power tubes. They get munched quicker. So that, combined with the quality of new production tubes, could be the culprit. IME, this happens gradually and the tge amp slowly starts to sound harsh until one day you’re like “yuck!” :eek:
I bought this amp used so i assume the previous owner broke those tubes in. One thing though, I never considered that the el84's may be the issue for me. I have never owned an el84 amp. I've had el34's or 6L6's. Hmmmmm -- thanks for the thoughts. I wonder if Mr Goodsell has any insight on that?? Thank You Man!
 

stephenT

Member
Messages
2,426
I've owned a 2x10 Goodsell and just didn't care for the 10's w/ that amp. YMMV.

If it were mine I'd remove that bright cap on the volume control and get a 1x12 baffle from Mojotone. My main gigging amp has been a Goodsell Super 17 MkIV 1x12 for the last 6-7 years and always some Goodsell for the last 11 yrs.
 

pfddi

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
253
I've put a set of Celestion G10 Creambacks in my Ekblad combo and the speakers are great. Went around and around on ceramic versus alnico but these have a nice sound with the open back cabinet. Speakers aren't fully broken in yet, but so far - for me - I think I made the right choice. I can switch out the power tubes in the amp which has EL34s in it now, so not quite the same as your Goodsell. It's a 50 watt amp with volume and equalizers on each channel and a MV that works great. The wife does not complain too much... until something new arrives!
 
Last edited:
Messages
485
Okay folks. I'm hoping Mr. Goodsell will chime in here but if not I still need some advice. I have previously asked a question or 2 about my Goodsell amp on this forum a few months ago. To me, My amp sounds fizzy and not as nearly as sweet as other Goodsell's I have heard. I bought this amp online just because it was A Goodsell -- without ever even hearing it. I have tried and tried to get a nice sound out of this but I just cant seem to get there. Its okay but I know it can be better. My amp is the Goodsell 17 with 2x10 speakers (signed by Richard on 12/16/16). It has 3 knobs, Gain, Tone, and Volume (no reverb and no tremolo). It has 5 tubes: 2 12ax7's, 2 el84's and a Rectifier. I have swapped out the EH pre-amp tubes (I guess they are both pre-amp tubes, i never could get confirmation from the man) with some tubes I retrieved from an old Fender Showman Blackface head (I'm not sure what they are -- i can just make out the 12ax7 label but i see no manufacturer's name). I really could not tell much of a difference. I purchased the rectifier tubes Mr Goodsell talks about on his video Blogs. I tried both the 5y3 (is that the correct number?) and the long one. I really did not notice much of a difference. Maybe a bit of an improvement using the 5y3, but not much. So now I'm looking at the speakers. According to Mr. Goodsell, the speakers I have aint the ones that came with it. It has an Eminence 1028 and a 1058. If I am not mistaken, Mr Goodsell said it originally had a Ragin Cajun and a Copperhead, both Eminence speakers. I have always been partial to Ceramic and not Alnico mags. So, with that said, I am looking at using maybe a Celestion Vintage 30watt or a Greenback. Okay, here's my question(s): Should I go with the Celestions or should get the speakers that originally came in this amp (Ragin Cajun and a Copperhead)? or should I go with something else? I play mainly late 60's early 70's style Rock and blues. There's a 10" Celestion ?Vintage? at Guitar center for around $38. The price suggests a cheap, made in China Speaker. Wondrer how it sounds? I am open for any and all suggestions. Thank you all!
I hope I can help - I’m sorry if I’ve been less accessible than before, but for the last several months I have been pursuing a day job, and I was already on a limited schedule for the last year or so fulfilling domestic obligations while the spouse has been the chief revenue generator.

I have recently started a new job, and, as I am discovering, certain sales jobs in particular utilize a tremendous amount of email resources, and even more iPhone technology, as most CRM systems tie the two together. When at work I expect that I will be monitored, tracked, and recorded right down to the last keystroke. When I get home, I just want to stick the phone in a drawer and be a dad and a spouse for the couple of hours that I have before everyone goes to sleep. Lately I find myself returning calls and emails that can be over a week old. I hope to improve on that when I get in a groove, but it’s likely that there will be one weekday every week when I do most of my amp business, and never, ever, on a Saturday or Sunday, or at night henceforth.

Now, as far as the 3-knob Super 17 goes, it is by far the simplest machine I make. Of the 2 12AX7s, one is the pre-amp (and only half of that one is used) and the other the phase inverter. The big tube is the rectifier, and the only “fizz” you’ll ever hear there is mechanical rattle. I made a couple of hundred of those amps with some NOS Russian 5V4 rectifiers (the Cyrillic “V” looks like a “U”) and as they aged they were prone to rattle. For the record, and superseding all previous rumors and recommendations, the “correct” rectifier for that amp is the JJ GZ34. You can use a 5Y3 all day long as long as you understand that your power (and headroom) will be lower due to dramatic reduction in plate voltage. There will be those that find that useful, and may even prefer the amp running at 12-13 watts instead of the full 17-18. That leaves the EL84s - the power tubes - which are the source of “fizz” 97 out of 100 times. The ONLY new production tube recommended is and always has been the Electro-Harmonix. The JJs have ALWAYS been specifically not recommended. NOS are OK but should tap-tested (with your fingers) to make sure there is no internal rattle, which will translate as fizz in the signal. Rarely, as in almost never, the V1 12AX7 will do this if it is an old pull with questionable provenance. Just because it says “RCA” doesn’t mean it hasn’t already served 10,000 hours in some old TV set.

As far as speakers go, everybody is on their own. It is well known that I am a proponent of the Cajun/Copperhead combination, and when money and weight are no object (and they almost always are) the Tone Tubby H-Bomb green/red combination is spectacular. Other than that, I have no comment or valid opinion, and those emails regarding highly subjective subject matter generally go unanswered.
 

Joey Steed

Member
Messages
12
I hope I can help - I’m sorry if I’ve been less accessible than before, but for the last several months I have been pursuing a day job, and I was already on a limited schedule for the last year or so fulfilling domestic obligations while the spouse has been the chief revenue generator.

I have recently started a new job, and, as I am discovering, certain sales jobs in particular utilize a tremendous amount of email resources, and even more iPhone technology, as most CRM systems tie the two together. When at work I expect that I will be monitored, tracked, and recorded right down to the last keystroke. When I get home, I just want to stick the phone in a drawer and be a dad and a spouse for the couple of hours that I have before everyone goes to sleep. Lately I find myself returning calls and emails that can be over a week old. I hope to improve on that when I get in a groove, but it’s likely that there will be one weekday every week when I do most of my amp business, and never, ever, on a Saturday or Sunday, or at night henceforth.

Now, as far as the 3-knob Super 17 goes, it is by far the simplest machine I make. Of the 2 12AX7s, one is the pre-amp (and only half of that one is used) and the other the phase inverter. The big tube is the rectifier, and the only “fizz” you’ll ever hear there is mechanical rattle. I made a couple of hundred of those amps with some NOS Russian 5V4 rectifiers (the Cyrillic “V” looks like a “U”) and as they aged they were prone to rattle. For the record, and superseding all previous rumors and recommendations, the “correct” rectifier for that amp is the JJ GZ34. You can use a 5Y3 all day long as long as you understand that your power (and headroom) will be lower due to dramatic reduction in plate voltage. There will be those that find that useful, and may even prefer the amp running at 12-13 watts instead of the full 17-18. That leaves the EL84s - the power tubes - which are the source of “fizz” 97 out of 100 times. The ONLY new production tube recommended is and always has been the Electro-Harmonix. The JJs have ALWAYS been specifically not recommended. NOS are OK but should tap-tested (with your fingers) to make sure there is no internal rattle, which will translate as fizz in the signal. Rarely, as in almost never, the V1 12AX7 will do this if it is an old pull with questionable provenance. Just because it says “RCA” doesn’t mean it hasn’t already served 10,000 hours in some old TV set.

As far as speakers go, everybody is on their own. It is well known that I am a proponent of the Cajun/Copperhead combination, and when money and weight are no object (and they almost always are) the Tone Tubby H-Bomb green/red combination is spectacular. Other than that, I have no comment or valid opinion, and those emails regarding highly subjective subject matter generally go unanswered.
Thank you Mr Richard. Your insights are always educational. I must say that yesterday I jammed with my friends and my Goodsell amp was sounding really good. I purchased a couple of pedals recently (Earthquaker Plumes Overdrive and a Line 6 Echo/tape/Delay) and my Les Paul sounded really good. Thank you so much for being such a real, honest, and understanding person. Have a good day! Good luck with your new job but please don't stop making these wonderful amps!!
 

Joey Steed

Member
Messages
12
I hope I can help - I’m sorry if I’ve been less accessible than before, but for the last several months I have been pursuing a day job, and I was already on a limited schedule for the last year or so fulfilling domestic obligations while the spouse has been the chief revenue generator.

I have recently started a new job, and, as I am discovering, certain sales jobs in particular utilize a tremendous amount of email resources, and even more iPhone technology, as most CRM systems tie the two together. When at work I expect that I will be monitored, tracked, and recorded right down to the last keystroke. When I get home, I just want to stick the phone in a drawer and be a dad and a spouse for the couple of hours that I have before everyone goes to sleep. Lately I find myself returning calls and emails that can be over a week old. I hope to improve on that when I get in a groove, but it’s likely that there will be one weekday every week when I do most of my amp business, and never, ever, on a Saturday or Sunday, or at night henceforth.

Now, as far as the 3-knob Super 17 goes, it is by far the simplest machine I make. Of the 2 12AX7s, one is the pre-amp (and only half of that one is used) and the other the phase inverter. The big tube is the rectifier, and the only “fizz” you’ll ever hear there is mechanical rattle. I made a couple of hundred of those amps with some NOS Russian 5V4 rectifiers (the Cyrillic “V” looks like a “U”) and as they aged they were prone to rattle. For the record, and superseding all previous rumors and recommendations, the “correct” rectifier for that amp is the JJ GZ34. You can use a 5Y3 all day long as long as you understand that your power (and headroom) will be lower due to dramatic reduction in plate voltage. There will be those that find that useful, and may even prefer the amp running at 12-13 watts instead of the full 17-18. That leaves the EL84s - the power tubes - which are the source of “fizz” 97 out of 100 times. The ONLY new production tube recommended is and always has been the Electro-Harmonix. The JJs have ALWAYS been specifically not recommended. NOS are OK but should tap-tested (with your fingers) to make sure there is no internal rattle, which will translate as fizz in the signal. Rarely, as in almost never, the V1 12AX7 will do this if it is an old pull with questionable provenance. Just because it says “RCA” doesn’t mean it hasn’t already served 10,000 hours in some old TV set.

As far as speakers go, everybody is on their own. It is well known that I am a proponent of the Cajun/Copperhead combination, and when money and weight are no object (and they almost always are) the Tone Tubby H-Bomb green/red combination is spectacular. Other than that, I have no comment or valid opinion, and those emails regarding highly subjective subject matter generally go unanswered.
Thank you Mr Richard. Your insights are always so educational. I am using the JJ 5Y3. I will purcahse an EH version of the 5Y3 and switch those out immediately. BTW, last Saturday I jammed with my friends and my Goodsell amp was sounding really good. I purchased a couple of pedals recently (Earthquaker Plumes Overdrive and a Line 6 Echo/tape/Delay). Using those pedals with my Les Paul through this Goodsell Amp sounded fantastic!! I also used an old DeArmond "Twister" Phase shifter when playing more mellow tunes and all in all I was very pleased. One more thing, I went to the Tone Tubby Website, listened to some demos of those speakers and was blown away. Wow, very expensive but oh so sweet! Thank You Mr Goodsell.
 

danburgun

Member
Messages
35
Just to chime in, I purchased a used mk IV super 17 at the end of last year based solely on reviews and online stuff. I've played a Tech21 TM60 (solid state) my whole career, and needless to say getting the 17 blew my mind - responsive, dynamic, the missing half of the instrument equation. I have noticed that sometimes I struggle with the top end or midrange while playing alone at home with a P90 - but in a band situation any issues disappear and it always sits beautifully in the mix. Maybe some of what you are hearing is that same issue? There's such a world of difference in what we might want to hear in those two situations...

Removing or changing the bright cap has been mentioned a number of times on TGP and I wonder if that would suit me better, but it sounds so good live I figure I'll just make use of the 3 band eq and guitar tone knob for now.
 




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