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GT 12AX7M is "ticking" ....are these all bad tubes ?

n4p226r

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
8,405
i agree with hogy on this one. the only reason i could see buying tubes that were tested twice would be due to the fact that the tubes are a "must have" for the tone needed. I'm all for extra testing for consumers but when a manufacturer wants to buy a larger quantity of tubes, from a company that supposedly tests them before sending them out, then they should work.

for the record in my dual rec they sounded awesome for about a week or so. 2 of the 5 went bad. one had feedback, the other sounded like a helicopter. only in the channels they were plugged into of course
 

outtahear

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,338
It is complete ******** to purposely put out bad product, then play the "numbers game" by profiting on those who don't bother to try to get replacements. Your entire rep early on was for testing and selecting tubes. From your 4.1 ( .1? again..WTF?) edition of THE TUBE AMP BOOK, catalog section (after page 158..) page 4..."We literally go through thousands of tubes, rejecting more tubes than we accept. We put every tube through a rigorous performance test (...sure ya do!) one at a time, in real amp circuits( one with a speaker attached??). The preamp tubesare rejected for adverse microphonics, low output, or high noise. Power tubes are more involved (more parameters to completley ignore, apparently...)and they go through additional testing"....Either we found every reject tube that ever "slipped" through Q.C, or Groove Tubes Knowingly puts out bad tubes. Lord Valve and a few other dealers (and hobbyists!) seem to have no problem screening their tubes, again, leading many tube affecianados to the afore mentioned conclusion. And it's not just the "MULLARDS" that got hyped to hell and back- power tubes that were no way in hell screened and/or matched., and what's even worse, is the never ending littany of excuses, and of how technically competant adults tests are wrong when the product is clearly defective. I.e, power tubes being 10+ma apart, and being told that it means nothing (huh?) and it's part of the "Secret San Fernando Mojo-Match Process exclusive to......" "Scumbag"-please give Aspen a punch in the nuts for all hard working musicians who had money stolen from them by this organization. There is an especially warm corner of hell for assholes who conspire to steal from artists., and I believe Groove Tubes' corporate name will be on the formerly "Bing Crosby" arena. :rolleyes:
 

Scumback Speakers

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
11,062
Originally posted by outtahear
"Scumbag"-please give Aspen a punch in the nuts for all hard working musicians who had money stolen from them by this organization. There is an especially warm corner of hell for assholes who conspire to steal from artists., and I believe Groove Tubes' corporate name will be on the formerly "Bing Crosby" arena. :rolleyes:
OK, now wait a minute here! I'm not going to bag on people who identify a problem and are working to resolve it. I don't have alot going on with Aspen or Myles. I've met them both, they seem like decent guys. I bought some speakers from Aspen in my tone search to create the Scumbacks. Along that same line, of course, I would want to have the best products/parts/amps/speakers I could make...made.

I think Groove Tubes wants to do the same, of course, otherwise there are repurcussions. I've had wierd stuff happen on speakers shipping out, and stuff, too. You replace them, and get the client satisfied, that's all I can do, I think that's what GT wants to do.

I would prefer to give the GT folks the benefit of the doubt on this, as I would hope someone would do with me (and that's happened and I take care of it, too) if the same thing occurred. The fact is that sometimes "$hit happens". I don't want to pay for the shipping of a replacement speaker to someone because the first one I sent got mishandled in shipping, but from a customer service angle I do it because it's the right thing to do, the customer isn't at fault, and neither am I (even Fedex drops stuff once in a while, but it's way less than UPS). But ultimately, I take care of it, because I put myself in the customer's shoes, and want to treat them as I would hope I would be treated if a defective item got shipped (accidental damage is one thing), outright shipping known bad products is another, and that is a different issue.

I'm not going to kick Aspen in his crotch over this, ok? I am going to try and work with Aspen to identify and solve the problem, as well as with Myles. They both know this is an important issue, not only here but elsewhere, to deal with, and they are trying to deal with it.

Let's see how it goes before we get too uppity on kicking anyone in the nutsack, OK? Aspen is about 6'4" and I'm 6'2" so I think the right thing to do is work with him to resolve this, not kick him in the nutsack and then ask for a refund or replacement.

I'd like to get this resolved as well, but violence won't do you any good in this case. However, I understand your feelings on feeling "ripped off", but I think getting it resolved and working is where we all want to be...right?
 

CocoTone

Senior Member
Messages
2,642
Originally posted by Red Planet
As to replacing bad tubes well thats great.

Though it seems there have been a lot of bad tubes and to me customers would be better served to weed out the bad ones before you ship them.

I dont think you should do everything based on what I say I'm just sticking my 2 cents in as many do here.

And yes I'm abrasive in my opinions but thats just me. Last I checked I live in the good ol USA where we have free speach. I think its going out of style though.


I do have some of these tubes but am refraining from getting any more for two reasons. One they seem to be a bit high priced for Chineese made and two there seems to be some qaulity issues with them.

I had placed a large order which I cancelled upon discovery of what is what and what is made where and what is qaulity and what is not.
Wait a sec!! I thought these were US built tubes, hence the $$$ involved. What gives??

And buddy...learn to spell willya??

CT.:cool:
 

Blue Strat

Member
Messages
30,327
Originally posted by Scumbag
OK, now wait a minute here! I'm not going to bag on people who identify a problem and are working to resolve it. I don't have alot going on with Aspen or Myles. I've met them both, they seem like decent guys. I bought some speakers from Aspen in my tone search to create the Scumbacks. Along that same line, of course, I would want to have the best products/parts/amps/speakers I could make...made.

I think Groove Tubes wants to do the same, of course, otherwise there are repurcussions. I've had wierd stuff happen on speakers shipping out, and stuff, too. You replace them, and get the client satisfied, that's all I can do, I think that's what GT wants to do.

I would prefer to give the GT folks the benefit of the doubt on this, as I would hope someone would do with me (and that's happened and I take care of it, too) if the same thing occurred. The fact is that sometimes "$hit happens". I don't want to pay for the shipping of a replacement speaker to someone because the first one I sent got mishandled in shipping, but from a customer service angle I do it because it's the right thing to do, the customer isn't at fault, and neither am I (even Fedex drops stuff once in a while, but it's way less than UPS). But ultimately, I take care of it, because I put myself in the customer's shoes, and want to treat them as I would hope I would be treated if a defective item got shipped (accidental damage is one thing), outright shipping known bad products is another, and that is a different issue.

I'm not going to kick Aspen in his crotch over this, ok? I am going to try and work with Aspen to identify and solve the problem, as well as with Myles. They both know this is an important issue, not only here but elsewhere, to deal with, and they are trying to deal with it.

Let's see how it goes before we get too uppity on kicking anyone in the nutsack, OK? Aspen is about 6'4" and I'm 6'2" so I think the right thing to do is work with him to resolve this, not kick him in the nutsack and then ask for a refund or replacement.

I'd like to get this resolved as well, but violence won't do you any good in this case. However, I understand your feelings on feeling "ripped off", but I think getting it resolved and working is where we all want to be...right?
Well said. No one is purposely putting out a bad product or trying to screw anyone. Only an idiot or someone who doesn't plan on being in business for more than a year would do that. Neither is the case here.

Some credit should be given for attempting to put out a superior product instead of just buying crappy "third world" tubes and relabeling them. As you can imagine (if you have any imagination at all), making tubes isn't a simple process, getting set up is costly, etc.

It would be infinitely more productive to send constructive criticism to GT rather than spouting off on web forums. At least that way GT might be able to gather enough data to do something about the situation.

My experience in dealing with close to 1000 GT-Ms has been relatively good. I reject several pieces per shippment and have had few customer complaints/returns. This is not to say that there aren't issues, obviously there are.
 

RussB

low rent hobbyist
Messages
11,157
Originally posted by myles111
John,

You bet. There is a six month, no questions asked policy.

Call me at 1-800-459-5687 and I will get you in contact with the right guys to get this resolved.
Actually, there are a lot of questions asked. GT would not honor the warranty unless I provided a dated sales slip with the tubes. In the case of a friend's Super Reverb, the bad GT-M was simply thrown out, because he did not retain his sales slip.

And in the 4 tubes I returned, in 3 different shipments, I had to eat the return shipping. You'd think GT might throw in an extra tube to satisfy a customer? Nope. And it's been 6 weeks since I sent the last bad tube back, and I still wait for it's replacement.

Please, someone remind me why I should buy Groove Tubes?
 

outtahear

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,338
Easy Hammer-was speaking figuratively! :p By all means- looking forward to what he has to say. But as far as blaming this on any shipping/handeling snafus, well....no. After close to 20 years in the amp/git biz (w/plenty of weekly worldwide shipping), Ain't buying it. If you had this much trouble w/ shippers would you...1) File damage claims? sure, but eventually NO shipper would touch a corporate account with THAT many claims. 2) Invest in a roll or two of bubble wrap? You could , but that would be a business write-off, save time (ever file a claim w/ a shipper?) and$$, and all 'round make entirely too much sense. 3) Have the Chinese elves that are making Mullards for ya make 'em a little more robust?... Again, nothing against you personally, but watching yet another newb getting sucked into the "fatfinger/balanced inverters/made in USA/snake-earl " crapnado only to set back down in KS minus their hard earned $$ has to (imho) stop. And to continue to lie to people who (they know) know better is just an insult. Back in the day (when it seems they actually did screen tubes) they were the semi-only game in town for many guitarists. Not so anymore by a longshot. Time to do what you claim to do, and, for f@#ks sakes, STOP having people show up to do spin . If not, expect more folks to speak up on this issue. Again-too many people w/MUCH smaller organizations, w/less capital, do this right, day in, day out. No more ********. Replacing a dicey chinese made tube with yet ANOTHER dicey chinese made tube (costing top-dollar) is like having e-coli tainted ground beef replaced w/ more from the co., same batch.:confused:
 

outtahear

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,338
It would be infinitely more productive to send constructive criticism to GT rather than spouting off on web forums. At least that way GT might be able to gather enough data to do something about the situation.
Mike-With all respects-I believe the tubes flying back to their business is enough to let 'em know somethings' up. As for spouting off on web boards, that's how LOADS of suckers found out about their "new, made in USA accurate MULLARD clone" You were there-and that turned out to be complete crap-see how fast they "fessed-up" on that one? And, yes-it's not easy to come out w/new product. And, they knew that going in. If you can't get the QC under control, write it off until you do, or just scrap it. You don't let your customers buy your mistakes, and expect people to just go along with it.They have all the data they need. As far as a company knowingly putting out bad product, Lee Iacocca in an interview, stated plainly that they (Detroit) "Knowingly put out garbage cars for years " people believed in the "world class american made" BS spouted by a once great industry If it wasn't for the Japanese (as well as Ralph Nader), they damn sure would have continued to. Same thing here sadly.
 

Blue Strat

Member
Messages
30,327
Originally posted by outtahear
Mike-With all respects-I believe the tubes flying back to their business is enough to let 'em know somethings' up. As for spouting off on web boards, that's how LOADS of suckers found out about their "new, made in USA accurate MULLARD clone" You were there-and that turned out to be complete crap-see how fast they "fessed-up" on that one? And, yes-it's not easy to come out w/new product. And, they knew that going in. If you can't get the QC under control, write it off until you do, or just scrap it. You don't let your customers buy your mistakes, and expect people to just go along with it.They have all the data they need. As far as a company knowingly putting out bad product, Lee Iacocca in an interview, stated plainly that they (Detroit) "Knowingly put out garbage cars for years " people believed in the "world class american made" BS spouted by a once great industry If it wasn't for the Japanese (as well as Ralph Nader), they damn sure would have continued to. Same thing here sadly.
Point taken on the Japanese cars. I was burned on a US car, switched to Honda and I'll NEVER go back.
 

outtahear

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,338
I hear ya-on my second Camry-my niece is currently driving the BEJEEBUS! out of my first (an '88-still looking good and running fine):dude
 
Messages
6,116
I was approached a year ago from an owner
of a tube Co. who bent my ear for 3hrs
on the company history ect.....
He told me he could meet my demands
and so on.
When I finally decided to try this, I was sent
500pcs of selected preamp tubes.
None of them would pass a microphonics
test in a benign blackface fender circuit.
When I called back they told me they sent
the wrong tubes, and sent another 500.
Same crap. So, next I offered to funish
a test rig like I made Lord Valve.
The owner through another employee
told me he didn't want to do it,
it would be too much work.
I spend about 13K a year with Lord Valve,
obviously my money wasn't good enough for him.
I'm not naming names so don't ask,
its a true story, and comon in this industry.
You have to find a middle dealer who will
take care of you, and spend the extra.
 

n4p226r

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
8,405
Originally posted by Roccaforte Amps
I was approached a year ago from an owner
of a tube Co. who bent my ear for 3hrs
on the company history ect.....
He told me he could meet my demands
and so on.
When I finally decided to try this, I was sent
500pcs of selected preamp tubes.
None of them would pass a microphonics
test in a benign blackface fender circuit.
When I called back they told me they sent
the wrong tubes, and sent another 500.
Same crap. So, next I offered to funish
a test rig like I made Lord Valve.
The owner through another employee
told me he didn't want to do it,
it would be too much work.
I spend about 13K a year with Lord Valve,
obviously my money wasn't good enough for him.
I'm not naming names so don't ask,
its a true story, and comon in this industry.
You have to find a middle dealer who will
take care of you, and spend the extra.

i dont doubt that but don't you find that even the least bit rediculous
 

RussB

low rent hobbyist
Messages
11,157
One thing about the GT-M's, and testing...

Im my case, the GT-M's sounded great! I initially bought 2 (from KCA), then ordered 3 more (from LV). Everything was OK!

Then, afeter maybe 20 to 30 hours on them, they started to fail. The issue wasn't something that could be easily found during initial testing, it developed after a short while. This is significant, and does seem to get lost in all the GT-bashing
 

outtahear

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,338
Bashing? People recounting the experience of numerous run-ins with completly sub-standard tubes from a co. whos' claim to fame is weeded out tubes? Did you read Hogys' post?? Not unusual for anyone who's "weeded out" their weeds. How long did they Beta test 'em for? For the weekend? I'd be wiling to bet they took your money(or the dealers) for those tubes when they already knew they were having major issues with them. Case in point- posts about how "the initial ones had issues BUUUUTTTT , we have the problem sorted out now. And again. And again. Did Myles post anything even resembling a recall? Do YOU rember a post stating "If you purchased any early examples, please return them, and we will replace them or refund your purchase price". No? Me either. They all but admited the first run were crap-wonder where they are now? Most likely still out there as someones stock. Please stop defending people who pull this $hit.[;)
 

n4p226r

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
8,405
Originally posted by RussB
One thing about the GT-M's, and testing...

Im my case, the GT-M's sounded great! I initially bought 2 (from KCA), then ordered 3 more (from LV). Everything was OK!

Then, afeter maybe 20 to 30 hours on them, they started to fail. The issue wasn't something that could be easily found during initial testing, it developed after a short while. This is significant, and does seem to get lost in all the GT-bashing
ill admit that as well. mine failed after say 30-40 hours of use. which is like a month for me at least.
 

outtahear

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,338
Originally posted by RussB
Then, afeter maybe 20 to 30 hours on them, they started to fail. The issue wasn't something that could be easily found during initial testing, it developed after a short while. This is significant, and does seem to get lost in all the GT-bashing
ill admit that as well. mine failed after say 30-40 hours of use. which is like a month for me at least.
That might be the case. But, unless you two's tubes are the first to go south after 20 hrs., and this is the first they've heard of it, again, not good. These posts popped up almost immediatley after the "Mullards" came out. And again-NO recall, and the reports of them going microphonic/schizoid afert 20+ hours go on. That same tube is still being sold on their site. Get it??
 

RussB

low rent hobbyist
Messages
11,157
Originally posted by outtahear
Bashing? People recounting the experience of numerous run-ins with completly sub-standard tubes from a co. whos' claim to fame is weeded out tubes? Did you read Hogys' post?? Not unusual for anyone who's "weeded out" their weeds. How long did they Beta test 'em for? For the weekend? I'd be wiling to bet they took your money(or the dealers) for those tubes when they already knew they were having major issues with them. Case in point- posts about how "the initial ones had issues BUUUUTTTT , we have the problem sorted out now. And again. And again. Did Myles post anything even resembling a recall? Do YOU rember a post stating "If you purchased any early examples, please return them, and we will replace them or refund your purchase price". No? Me either. They all but admited the first run were crap-wonder where they are now? Most likely still out there as someones stock. Please stop defending people who pull this $hit.[;)
outtahear,

I don't know what your beef is with me, and/or my post. I have been on the anti-GT bandwagon for quite some time now, if you look through the acrchives, you'll find a post or 3 about them bogus GT-M's, same on HC and a few other boards...

My point this time around is that the tubes fail after X amount of time, and apparantly no testing, be it by GT, KCA or Lord Valve found anything wrong. The tubes did not fail (the one's I had go bad, I can't speak for everyone) until after the 20+ hour mark.

Chill out, man :)
 

outtahear

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,338
Russ-Yikes! Sorry man_didn't mean to come off as being pissed at you guys-my point was that they (as a manufacturer) are supposed to beta test 'em a Lil better than a distrubitor, and to take positive action when they are made to realize that there is a problem. Again-a REAL mullard (that I paid $22 for) says that sucker left the warehouse after the complaints started coming in. Again-no beef with you or any one individual on this board. Just seems time to put the Groove Tubes ******** to rest. Either they get their **** together, or get the word out on the % of their product that's sub par. :dude
 

Scumback Speakers

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
11,062
Hey, I'll be up there in about 18 hours... let's all agree that there are some issues to take care of and that it needs to be addressed. This is why I offered, and why Myles and Aspen are meeting me. They know they have an issue, and I know they do, and I'm coming up there for the express reason of "figuring it out".

I'll be honest with you guys. I'm not doing this for you, I'm doing it for me! I'm a selfish tone hording anal vintage homo who wants the best tone on the internet. Period.























None of you are like that...are you? ;)

Let's chill out till tomorrow. I think all of the views have been expressed at this point. The thing to do is resolve it, or determine that there's alot more to be fixed until it's resolved. Fair enough? Can we agree on that and let this thread die until the testing is done? That seems fair to me. But let's hear what you have to say... if it's not already covered.
 




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