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GT1000 vs Helix LT

Fractal Audio

Member
Messages
1,238
It's far easier to clip the output section of the Axe-FX III.
Even with heavy palm-mutes, the GT-1000 won't clip.
Most likely because the GT-1000 is using Floating-point processing.
Not a deal-breaker, but it's nice not having to worry about it.
All Fractal Audio products use floating-point processing. In fact the Axe-Fx III uses 64-bit floating-point in many places. It's impossible to clip internally. The AX-8 and Axe-Fx II use 40-bit in many places and are also impossible to clip internally.

If you are clipping the output, which is the final fixed-point signal to the converters (all audio converters use fixed-point), then your internal signals are far too high. If you use the VU meters and set your output to 0 dB you are guaranteed 12 dB of headroom at the converters with the output level knob all the way up. I've never witnessed a palm mute that was more than a few dB hotter than nominal.

Go into the Layout menu and press the Zoom hotkey. This will display VU meters for the two main outputs. Adjust the level of the Amp block (using the Block Level knob with the Amp block selected) so that the signal hovers around the 0 dB marker. If you do this it's impossible to clip the outputs.

The factory presets are all adjusted for roughly 0 dB on the VU meters. Even with the output level knob all the way up I never get anywhere even close to clipping.

We could've taken a conservative approach and built in a lot of headroom so that clipping the converters was impossible but then you lose dynamic range. The approach taken optimizes the dynamic range of the converters (so you aren't wasting bits) thereby ensuring maximum fidelity and lowest noise. It does require that the user adjust their presets correctly to avoid overflowing the converters but the VU meters make this task trivially easy.
 

KenG

Member
Messages
1,505
OP, in the future you need to highlight "anyone have experience with both" otherwise you get a lot of useless opinions from guys who've listened to YouTube clips and have never used either.
I think a few of us posters own one or the other. I have the LT and while I have only heard the GT online I can compare it to online stuff from the Helix and the extrapolate from my direct listening experiences.
There are a lot of Helix fans here because many actually own one with it being more affordable than some its competitors.
Everyones hearing and judgement of tone is personal. So all we're offering is opinions anyway. Personally I would not buy a damned thing based on anyone elses opinion.
 

Pat6969

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
4,995
I think a few of us posters own one or the other. I have the LT and while I have only heard the GT online I can compare it to online stuff from the Helix and the extrapolate from my direct listening experiences.
There are a lot of Helix fans here because many actually own one with it being more affordable than some its competitors.
Everyones hearing and judgement of tone is personal. So all we're offering is opinions anyway. Personally I would not buy a damned thing based on anyone elses opinion.
I've owned all the modellers as well and one thing I can say with certainty is that YouTube videos don't portray what a unit, or amp for that matter, sounds like once it's in your possession with your equipment. That's only my experience of course but I have regretted buying a lot of gear after liking the sound clip. You are correct however, I'd never again buy an item based on some reviews. Personal demos for me from now on.
 

KenG

Member
Messages
1,505
I just priced checked here and the GT1000 is $65 cad cheaper than the LT but it doesn't have a built in power supply (uses a wallwart) and the screen looks to be monochrome lcd with very little graphics displayed. It really seems to be marketed more for the pedalboard crowd from what I could see.
 

soundbee

Double Platinum Member
Messages
1,317
I love Line6 stuff for their ability to really hone in on exact models... example, put a Timmy (or just about any other modeled pedal) in the loop and go back and forth between the model and loop... you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference. It's a bit harder to do that with amps. I've the Helix, HX, and native... Overall Line6 does a great job on many fronts.

When the DD-500 came along a lot folks ditched their Timelines. The sounds wasn't as "pure" ... but between the convenience, the price point, and better control features, it made sense. Feels like Boss is doing something similar with the GT.

Where the GT-1000 differs (imho) from the Helix line is that while the Helix gets real close to "real" gear, the Boss approach seems to go for a general "spirit" of modeled gear. Also, connecting to amps is much quieter (builtin ground lifts are great) and the sounds coming out (input > fx send > amp in) is pretty much just like using a Waza TU3 (really nice buffer)... whereas I've always had challenges getting the fx outs on the Helix to match levels and have had to do something to deal with noise.

At the moment I'm really digging the GT and have pretty much made that my main board. I kind of see it as this at the moment... if I need to do a gig or recording and have to have certain gear - then the Helix will have me 99.9% covered. But if I'm in a situation where I'm looking for a great base tone to build out my own sounds, then the GT is what I want.
 

Jim Roseberry

Member
Messages
1,657
All Fractal Audio products use floating-point processing. In fact the Axe-Fx III uses 64-bit floating-point in many places. It's impossible to clip internally. The AX-8 and Axe-Fx II use 40-bit in many places and are also impossible to clip internally.

If you are clipping the output, which is the final fixed-point signal to the converters (all audio converters use fixed-point), then your internal signals are far too high. If you use the VU meters and set your output to 0 dB you are guaranteed 12 dB of headroom at the converters with the output level knob all the way up. I've never witnessed a palm mute that was more than a few dB hotter than nominal.

We could've taken a conservative approach and built in a lot of headroom so that clipping the converters was impossible but then you lose dynamic range. The approach taken optimizes the dynamic range of the converters (so you aren't wasting bits) thereby ensuring maximum fidelity and lowest noise. It does require that the user adjust their presets correctly to avoid overflowing the converters but the VU meters make this task trivially easy.
Hi Cliff,
Thanks for taking the time to clarify.
I had the input gain setting all the way down.
I'm not using guitars with particularly hot pickups... so I wasn't thinking it necessary to turn down the Amp block's output to ~-20dB.
Once turned down (signal hovering ~0dB via the meters), there is zero clipping.
 

yquy

Member
Messages
72
1. Helix has more effects and amps.
2. Helix sounds considerably better, i have only heard like 2 or so tones from the GT-1000 so far that i would happily play or that you can't get out of a low priced Zoom unit.
3. Helix has proven to get updated frequently and will - according to Line6 - be supported for quite a while.
4. Helix can load more than four IRs. :rolleyes:
5. If you look at the GT-1000 thread, some decisions that went into the GT-1000 are mind bogglingly stupid, as if some of the designers have never played guitar or used a multi fx unit before. For example the limitation in post effects.

At this point i can't come up with an argument (besides BT, weight, size) to get the GT-1000 over the Helix unless you are heavily into Boss sounds.
I say this with the 1000$ price tag of the GT-1000 in mind, if it was a 399$ or something unit it would be awesome but at that price point it has to measure up against Helix and Ax8 and it loses there.
Again, just my opinion.
Would like to hear a reasonable argument to get the GT-1000 instead of it's competition though.
This 'suggestion/recommendation' is very biased and pretty absurd.
 

yquy

Member
Messages
72
Quite the opposite. If Lord N is recommending the Helix; take note.
I took note because of this, "i have only heard like 2 or so tones from the GT-1000 so far that i would happily play or that you can't get out of a low priced Zoom unit..." You can't write off a piece of hi-tech signal processing instrument after "...heard like 2 or so tones .." That's why it's absurd.
 

JiveTurkey

Trumpets and Tants
Silver Supporting Member
Messages
22,500
I took note because of this, "i have only heard like 2 or so tones from the GT-1000 so far that i would happily play or that you can't get out of a low priced Zoom unit..." You can't write off a piece of hi-tech signal processing instrument after "...heard like 2 or so tones .." That's why it's absurd.
I'll let him speak for himself beyond this but he had a GT in his hands early on. And is not a Helix guy whatsoever. So if he is giving the LT a recommendation; that's why I would take those circumstances into account :dunno
 

WAKEMEUPS

Active Member
Messages
46
I took note because of this, "i have only heard like 2 or so tones from the GT-1000 so far that i would happily play or that you can't get out of a low priced Zoom unit..." You can't write off a piece of hi-tech signal processing instrument after "...heard like 2 or so tones .." That's why it's absurd.
my biggest question is why wouldnt boss have all new amps like the 2 or 4 of new ones xmodded i think one is called? Why not have all new amps the x modded type amps thet all say sound better then the standard amps.
 

JiveTurkey

Trumpets and Tants
Silver Supporting Member
Messages
22,500
my biggest question is why wouldnt boss have all new amps like the 2 or 4 of new ones xmodded i think one is called? Why not have all new amps the x modded type amps thet all say sound better then the standard amps.
Maybe they didn't quite know what they were getting to in comparison to the other devices in the same-ish price bracket? The X stuff is great sounding, fwiw.
 

mikah912

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
7,657
Maybe they didn't quite know what they were getting to in comparison to the other devices in the same-ish price bracket? The X stuff is great sounding, fwiw.
I wonder how much warmer it would've been received if the only official amp models were the few X-Modded ones, and they positioned them with more evocative names and descriptions like S-Gear does to cover a lot of ground. Keep the "legacy" stuff as a hidden add-on like the Katana amps.
 

JCW308

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
9,187
I've owned both. For me the BOSS sounded better, was smaller and yes even easier to use. Nothing wrong with the Helix at all though. The Helix has killer reverbs and delays too. It just wasn't the right fit for my needs.
 

JiveTurkey

Trumpets and Tants
Silver Supporting Member
Messages
22,500
I wonder how much warmer it would've been received if the only official amp models were the few X-Modded ones, and they positioned them with more evocative names and descriptions like S-Gear does to cover a lot of ground. Keep the "legacy" stuff as a hidden add-on like the Katana amps.
I think it's been received well, in general. Considering how I thought it might go down. I think some great tones are in there and capabilities are certainly there if you are someone who's use case/needs fits the (limited depending on how you look at it) Boss feature set.
 

JerEvil

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
4,633
I think it's been received well, in general. Considering how I thought it might go down. I think some great tones are in there and capabilities are certainly there if you are someone who's use case/needs fits the (limited depending on how you look at it) Boss feature set.
So did they include ALL the blog's from the 500 series or just select ones? Also... really only 4 IR's? I am not a huge IR fan but that seems like a misstep.
 

JiveTurkey

Trumpets and Tants
Silver Supporting Member
Messages
22,500
So did they include ALL the blog's from the 500 series or just select ones? Also... really only 4 IR's? I am not a huge IR fan but that seems like a misstep.
Not to my knowledge. I found what I wanted in stock cabs fairly quickly actually. So the IR factor was a non-issue for me. Other things were and they were things I don't expect them to address necessarily so...
 




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