Guitar playing is so unfair

Discussion in 'Playing and Technique' started by Chrome, Feb 15, 2015.

  1. Chrome

    Chrome Member

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    Does anyone else get really depressed and upset when you see someone play something so amazing that you listen to it over and over, but sadly realise it's something you will never be able to do yourself? I personally can't for the life of me understand how some people can improvise a solo on the spot that sounds better than the original recording. Instead of doing this myself, I'm sitting here in awe trying to figure out which notes someone specifically played so that I can replicate it. I'm sitting here imagining how amazing it would be to play something like this to my friends, but I can't even find a tab to start learning this as it is an improvised section that no one else has played. Anyone know that devastating feeling of jealousy?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M78QljuMZ4A&t=6m45s
     
  2. Blix

    Blix Supporting Member

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    That's how it is, some are born talented and if they put in the work they reach levels us mere mortals can't even touch.


    That said, the video you linked to wasn't that good, penta wanking with some minor runs thrown in for good measure. And nowhere near as good as the small outro solo Slash does on the original IMO.

    Set the bar higher. And work towards it in small steps.
    Improvising like that guy does isn't hard at all really , it's all in the same key and just work on your licks and connect them, spend hours just noodling over songs, making up small melodies as you go. Make all the mistakes possible and make friends with your fretboard... :)
     
  3. JonR

    JonR Member

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    A 1,000 mile march begins with a single step.
    Sit there and think about the 1000 miles, you'll be depressed and never get anywhere. You'll feel exhausted before you start.

    Start walking, and you realise the pleasure is in walking, and you'll hopefully forget about the 1,000 miles. One day in the future, you'll find you've passed the 1,000 mile mark and weren't even aware of it. The distance travelled has become irrelevant.

    To get a little less philosophical... ;)....

    Improvisation skill is twofold:

    First, you need command of your instrument. Enough confidence in your technique that you know you can get any note you want at any time - not necessarily at lightning speed, but fast enough. (You don't need amazing chops; only enough to be able to execute the ideas you have at the moment. Your chops will improve along with your ideas.)

    Second, you need the vocabulary. That means understanding underlying musical principles, such as key, phrasing, melody. You need to be totally familiar with the tune you're improvising on - to be on top of its chords, scales, etc. You need a stock of licks you know will work, in case your on the spot imagination dries.

    The first comes from practice, of course. Just getting to know your fretboard, and developing finger dexterity.
    The second comes from learning lots of songs. Studying some theory can help, but it's learning and playing songs and tunes of all kinds (not just learning solos, but melodies and chords too) that stocks your library of licks, builds your vocabulary.

    That particular youtube displays two things in particular: 1. An impressive command of technique. 2. A pretty limited range of licks and phrase patterns. If you watch his fret hand, it's repeating the same pattern quite a few times, in different positions, with minimal changes.
    It's what I'd call nice playing, but unimaginative improvisation - although it does suit the track. If it's really better than the original (which I don't know) it doesn't say much for the original.
    (Mind you, I've heard a lot worse playing on rock songs....and I couldn't do this myself without a fair amount of practice. I might have more ideas than this guy, but my chops aren't quite up to his standard.))
     
  4. JonR

    JonR Member

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    :facepalm
     
  5. Blix

    Blix Supporting Member

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    And your point is?
     
  6. Chrome

    Chrome Member

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    I wish someone would be kind enough to write me a tab of that section, I would do anything to be able to play it but just can't work out what he's doing. The guy who played it also doesn't write tabs. One can only hope.
     
  7. JonR

    JonR Member

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    I don't want to get into another rant here, but "talent" is a much abused concept.
    It's often a sign of lazy thinking. "X is so amazing he must have been born like it." :rolleyes:

    The deeper you look, the more you find that the differences between people's musical abilities are almost entirely (maybe entirely!) down to how much time they put into learning (and how young they start). And usually how much time they've put in before we're aware of them. So we suddenly see amazing skill, a seemingly "natural" fluency. And of course if it seems natural, well then it must be natural... Duh.

    The word "work" is often used in describing the time that great artists put into their activity, but "play" is much better.
    If anything sorts the sheep from the goats here, it's the ability to thoroughly enjoy the activity, without ever getting bored. These people would go 24 hours a day if they could. It's not remotely like "work".
    When you have that attitude, that passion, then you will inevitably become very good (much better than the guy in that video). It will still take years - but of course you won't care, you won't be measuring the time, and you won't be comparing yourself pessimistically to those better than you; you won't have time for that.

    Maybe the OP should give up now? Maybe he's wasting his time because he's "not talented"? Or maybe he just needs a change of attitude and focus?
    If you love what you do, why not keep doing it? Why worry about those who can do it better? If you don't love it... well then, why not stop?

    (Sorry, rant danger unaverted....)
     
  8. Blix

    Blix Supporting Member

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    Well that was better.
    Actually I don't disagree with you, and with "work" I meant exactly what you describe as "play". Bad choice of word.

    But talent does exist, and when you pair that natural talent with "play", you get those extraordinary guitarists.


    Funny thing, years ago I stopped trying so damn hard to become a guitar god, and just started playing for fun. My playing improved almost instantly.
     
  9. deluxelespaul

    deluxelespaul Supporting Member

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    No. It motivates me to become a better player...
     
  10. Blix

    Blix Supporting Member

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    It sure does.


    To OP, read JonR's post a few times. Forget about that video and start playing. :)
     
  11. Chrome

    Chrome Member

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    I desperately need a tab of how that guy played it. I know I can do it, and I even have a tone setup close to how the recording sounds, but I can't figure out what he is playing. I don't know who I have to pay but I really, really, really need a tab of that. I desperately want to play it.
     
  12. fenderlead

    fenderlead Member

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    I've seen some pretty good players have such a straight feel that I don't like listening to them.

    I really don't think that they could learn to swing.

    I listened to that Steve Howe solo (Heat Of The Moment) that was in a thread, and to me it sounded like a beginner playing it with off timing but others seemed to think it was ok and Steve Howe wasn't a beginner.

    So even if someone has some technical facility and knows things, there is still a lot more to it IMO and it's like taste and preferences and all of that.

    I have seen some guitarists and sax players that can't seem to get past technique road blocks even if they are practicing a lot and others that are wailing away after a year.

    I came across this girl once and I'm playing something on Acoustic and she starts singing in harmony in an impressive way and I stop playing and I ask her where did she learn to sing harmony like that and she said nowhere and she wasn't interested in doing anything musical and just said she sometimes sings around the house, it was one of the most musically odd encounters I've ever had.
     
  13. sixesandsevens

    sixesandsevens Member

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    This is a case of the classic "Give a man a fish, he'lol eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he'll eat for his whole life." I'm sure you can pay someone online to transcribe it, but instead you can help yourself. There are probably tutorials on how to learn from recordings all over the web and its a wonderful opportunity to develop a skill that can serve you the rest of your life.

    Find a slow-downer app if you have to, but you can learn the solo one note at a time if you have patience and put in the effort. If it's taking too long and you want something in TAB to work on, find something you do have TAB for and work on this transcription on the side. It develops your ear and your musicality in a way that reading TAB doesn't.
     
  14. greggorypeccary

    greggorypeccary Member

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    That's debatable, but most likely it doesn't exist, at least in the sense that if someone is great it's because they were "born with it".

    This. I view TAB along the lines of paint by numbers. If you have the fundimentals down you'll know what scales could be used for soloing over a set of changes. If not, learning it by ear will help you learn that stuff and make you better in the long run.
     
  15. LaoTzu

    LaoTzu Member

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    this is ********....
     
  16. LaoTzu

    LaoTzu Member

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    as for the op heres something you may have to change in your thought patterns when you see someone play better than you. this is what i have recently changed in my way of thinking. is that all it is, is there further down the path than you are. art is first and formost a transitional process. and if you let other peoples abilities stop your own transformation into who you will yourself to change into. then your being an idiot. when you see someone better next time you should be like wow thats cool it has nothing to do with me. now back to work on what i want to be good at. the person who is better than you doesnt owe you anything.
    so change your thinking to i have to work on my own transformation. if you cant hack that transition in thinking dont become an artist.

    i know this sounds harsh but in retrospect it is more helpful to be brutally honest.
     
  17. Blix

    Blix Supporting Member

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    Feel free to tell me why.

    All humans are different, and some just take to certain things better than others. When you combine that with passion and "work" you get the diamonds.
     
  18. LaoTzu

    LaoTzu Member

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    there would be no point in taking guitar lessons my job would be redundant if this was true.

    in the book i like to refernce alot the science and physcology of music performance. which has every chapter with at least 6 pages of peer review evidence suggest that there maybe a tiny variance that natural talent does exist but the main ingredient to becoming better is the desire to get better. theyve done tests in this to measure it if someone is given the incentive to get better they become better than the ones who dont take it to heart as much. you have to have the want and will to get better. if you dont have that then playing any instrument is going to be a struggle.

    there is no reason why one human can not do what another human can do without enough time and dedication. sure if i was going to learn ynwgie malmsteen licks id have to spend hours upon hours of research to be able to pull that off, but for yqnwie he does it because thats his style, thats all he does. the same would happen again if i studied steve vai. then after all this countless hours of studying so many greats people will start to hear my style and the cycle is ongoing. then people start saying i have natural talent.

    the first thing i teach my students is the correct attitude. i ask them do you believe in natural talent?

    if they say yes then i explain to them that this will be a hinderence to your thought patterns because you will always beleive other people will be better than you when the whole process of performing on an instrument is a personal success. aswell as this will stop my students from ever fully beliving in themselves. its a myth. i got as good as i am because i work hard when i first picked up the instrument i was doing technical excersizes 8 hours a day for the first 2 years. because its all i saw myself getting good at. i started late at 17.

    which brings me back to my main point. if you have to desire and will to get better, you wont find excuses to put off picking up your guitar and hitting it. you will become as good as you want to be. the only limitation is yourself.
     
  19. fenderlead

    fenderlead Member

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    Yngwie connected the dots in his way by seeking out Paganini and applying it to guitar with some Blackmore, but it doesn't mean that if someone else did the same thing before Yngwie that it would turn out as impressive as what Yngwie did because there are connect the dots reasons and taste and preference reasons and just instinct reasons as well as just plain hard work.

    It's not that hard to dismantle Yngwie's playing after the fact and then cop some of his stuff but it's a different process to put it all together in the first place and work and practice and learning things are only one component.
     
  20. Blix

    Blix Supporting Member

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    Must be different interpretation on the word "talent", I never wrote that talent is something magic that makes you suddenly good at something. Note I added "+ work".

    The passion and dedication is part of what I consider "talent". It goes hand in hand.

    But that still doesn't explain everything, sure one can train to become as technically proficient as you can, but still, where does the music come from? :)
     

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