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Guitars that won't stay in tune!!!

Gear Junky

Member
Messages
24
:horse
One of my pet peeves!
I don't want to beat that old horse but once again I am having tuning problems.
I just got a John Lennon LE Casino. A beautiful guitar. Always wanted one like John's. It's a 1999 early numbered guitar.
It has hardly been played all these years, and still had the original strings on it.
I did a re-string with D'Addario EXL110s . Kept the winds to a minimum, I even got the under the string and over thing as per Gibson guitar stringing guidlines.
Checked the nut for any string binding. (none shown) Lubed the nylon saddles and nut with a dab of Big Bends Nut Sauce. Stretched the strings for a couple days and I'm still having the typical 1st, 2nd, and 3rd strings go out of tune.
I want to enjoy this bad boy but this constant tuning is bringing me down I must say!
Now, I also have a Vinetto DC55 :drool that as far as I'm concerned is without a doubt the easiest guitar to stay in tune that I have yet encountered!
I bend the strings, I use the bar, and it justs seems to always tune easily and ring clear presice A chords, C chords etc. It's amazing.
I guess I am asking if it's in the manufacture, or is it in the setup that makes a guitar tuneable?
Any Ideas???
Maybe I should pm Vince and see if he can tune up my Casino like he does his Artifacts!
 

Mike9

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
10,971
What kind of tuners does it have? Are they press in, or threaded collar bushings? If they are threaded try tightening them up I've seen this so many times it's the first thing I do anymore. 10mm wrench for threaded collars. Another thing to check is if your bridge rocks back and forth when you use the trem. If it does you need to address that as well.
 

Dave Orban

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
16,867
9 times out of 10, it's your stringing technique that causes the problem.

If you're using the Fender style split shaft tuners on the Vinetto, and sticking the string into the slot, that helps to properly lock the string -- which might be why you're not experiencing the same problem on the Vinetto.

But traditional tuners are different, and how you wrap and lock the string makes a world of difference.
 

John Phillips

Member
Messages
13,038
Another thing to check is if your bridge rocks back and forth when you use the trem. If it does you need to address that as well.
Yes, by making it rock more freely. If the bridge can't rock, the strings will have to move over the saddles instead, which is far worse.

It's odd that it's the three plain strings going out though. Normally on a Gibson-style guitar the G and the D are the worst, followed by the A... because of the string angles at the nut.

If it's all the plain strings I would maybe suspect something to do with the tuners on that side - you do have them strung the right way round, with the strings on the side towards the middle of the head?
 

Mike9

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
10,971
But the Casino doesn't have a trem, or does it? I can't find any info on the LE model.
 

Gear Junky

Member
Messages
24
9 times out of 10, it's your stringing technique that causes the problem.

If you're using the Fender style split shaft tuners on the Vinetto, and sticking the string into the slot, that helps to properly lock the string -- which might be why you're not experiencing the same problem on the Vinetto.

But traditional tuners are different, and how you wrap and lock the string makes a world of difference.
Guys,
Thanks for all the replies.
Dave,
The Vinetto is pretty new and still has the strings from the factory on it.
And yes, they are the Fender style tuners.
Do you have a link on stringing Gibson style tuners?
I'd like to review that process again.
 

Gear Junky

Member
Messages
24
But the Casino doesn't have a trem, or does it? I can't find any info on the LE model.
Mike,
The Casino is the one without the trem.
Go to Musicians Friends and search for, "John Lennon Casino" and one should come up.
Cool
 

Gear Junky

Member
Messages
24
What kind of tuners does it have? Are they press in, or threaded collar bushings? If they are threaded try tightening them up I've seen this so many times it's the first thing I do anymore. 10mm wrench for threaded collars.
Mike9,
They are the press in type.
No 10mm nut.
 
Messages
378
errm a quick thought, which lennon casino are we talking about...the '65 had different tuners (vintage kluson) from the 'natural' model, which has gold grovers...




j
 

Bob V

Member
Messages
1,185
Do you have a link on stringing Gibson style tuners? I'd like to review that process again.
I use the method described in old Martin catalogs, but before getting specific I'd refer you to Dan Erlewine's book, How to Make Your Electric Guitar Sound (or is it Play) Great. He's got a whole chapter on the different ways to lock strings onto the posts, with two or three methods for each type of string post.

I run the string through the post hole and pull the string until my fist can just fit inbetwen the string and the fretboard; that's my way of measuring so it will wind about two and a half turns around the post. Then, before winding, I take the excess string and wrap it backwards around the post and back under the "standing" part of the string so that when it starts to get tension, the string holds itself against the post. Then I let go of the loose part and crank away with a pegwinder. I just wish the pegwinders were flocked in the inside so they don't wear the gold plating off. By the way the Planet Waves winder is far out, it has a cutter and a groove for stretching the strings, and it makes a decent cup of coffee.
 

blueguitar

Member
Messages
224
+1 Bob V. I think you have to do it this way to be certain there is no slippage between tuner capstan and string (plain strings are the most vulnerable to this). If those strings continue to go out of tune after locking you can start looking at other possibilities such as nut slots, bridge or tailpiece.
 

Tone_Terrific

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
35,048
+1 Bob V. I think you have to do it this way to be certain there is no slippage between tuner capstan and string (plain strings are the most vulnerable to this). If those strings continue to go out of tune after locking you can start looking at other possibilities such as nut slots, bridge or tailpiece.
If the strings are sharping out it seems very unlikely that the tuners are contributing to the problem.

Try pressing the strings down above the nut and check for return to pitch to test the nut.

Guitars go out of tune ALL the time for me, too, and I am not a hard player. I am almost convinced that it is a temp/humidity thing that varies as I play, since they tend to settle after a few songs. The reports from those who say they just pull it out of the case and its fine baffle me.
 




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