Guy invents way to increase perceived volume without increasing decibal level

Discussion in 'The Pub' started by voxylady, Apr 19, 2015.

  1. voxylady

    voxylady Member

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  2. SinglecutGuy

    SinglecutGuy Supporting Member

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    I'll be the first to admit anything is possible, but I design and install sound systems for a living and I'm really not believing this. It's physics. Waves, spl, etc. I think the shroud of mystery here only goes to further raise speculation.

    There's a handful of lifetime engineers working for EV, Yamaha, JBL, QSC, etc, that I would have expected to have developed something like this well before some nobody claims to. That and, this article is from VICE. Hardly am authority on the subject.
     
  3. Rick51

    Rick51 Member

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    So far, all we have is this BS article. Until he provides enough info for someone else to reproduce the effect, it's just a teaser article. I'm not holding my breath waiting for this to hit the market.
     
  4. voxylady

    voxylady Member

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    Yeah, I know next to nothing about the science behind this stuff, but he does mention that it's used through psychoacoustics which is legit right?
     
  5. FlackBase

    FlackBase Felonious Monkey Gold Supporting Member

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    I heard his speakers, instead of a voice coil, have a snay coil.
     
  6. gigs

    gigs Member

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    I don't care if its BS or not. I want to invest in this company early. Think of all the TGP GAS money just itchin' to be spent on this.
     
  7. 335guy

    335guy Member

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    At 1st glance ( and I'm no expert ) it seems like a bit of snake oil. Here's why.

    But loudness IS measured in db's. So, what he really means is perceived loudness. This is similar to work done by many others, including Fletcher-Munson.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletcher–Munson_curves

    At low volumes, the human ear doesn't hear the bass or treble as loud as it does at louder volumes. So, to compensate, the bass and treble freq are increased. Commonly called the smiley face eq curve. And also, recall back in the 60's and 70's, many stereo receivers had loudness buttons. You pushed them and they boosted the bass and treble.

    Then he says this:

    So, like audio mastering, where devices like the Aphex Aural Exciter and BBE's Sonic Maximizer, along with compression, and limiting, have been used for decades?

    There have been other processors that have attempted to do similar things, such as the Aphex Aural Exiciter and BBE's Sonic Maximizer, sans the db limiting function. But they are't merely simple eq's but instead, attempt to restore or generate different harmonics as well.

    Now this guy may have hit on an algorithm that does it better, but I'll bet it's basically a "sound enhancer" with db limiting. Check out this article:

    http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan00/articles/enhancer.htm
     
  8. Multicellular

    Multicellular Supporting Member

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    Psychoacoustics is a legit enough science, but it doesn't change that the article and website are totally vague.

    It is kinda like saying 'we discovered the cure to the ___ virus via medicine.'
     
  9. mudster

    mudster High Prairie Wrangler Silver Supporting Member

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    Well, I'm probably in a minority having studied psychoacoustics many years ago. The article strikes me as pure BS, as he appears to me to be avoiding giving straight answers. "Evolutionary response?" BS.
    Your ear is a natural midrange amplifier and it amplifies frequencies that basically cover the range of human speech (which is the evolutionary advantage). I have noticed that many people appear to perceive distorted sounds as being louder than clean sounds, although I don't personally know of any research to that effect. I would guess that one could add some artifacts to a signal that emulate distortion or other sounds that we associate with volume and people might feel like they are experiencing a louder sound than they actually are.
    I wasn't impressed with the article, but it would be possible to influence people's perception of loudness and just keep the db level the same.

    edit: the smiley face eq...this is a result of the ear's natural mid-range amplifier (the middle ear)

    - Yes, this sounds like an "aural enhancer" type technology, not something new.
     
  10. markedman

    markedman Supporting Member

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-weighting

    This will help explain a lot about dbA weighting and how to get around spl meters, which he's basically doing. You can pump up the low and high frequencies without the meter registering any increase. When you cut the mids, the meter will register a lower reading but once you apply the EQ curve too much it starts to sound weird.
    He wants to be David Copperfield.
     
  11. Cody

    Cody Well, look who’s undead! Silver Supporting Member

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    :rimshot
     
  12. Staggerlee

    Staggerlee Member

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    I would take anything published on Vice or reported by Vice with a bucket of salt. The so called Vice news is the biggest sensationalist yellow news website in the world. The thing is they try to pass as groundbreaking legit news but in fact they are master manipulators of how they present information to make it seem groundbreaking.
     
  13. loudboy

    loudboy Member

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    Does this guy work for Bose?
     
  14. Brazen

    Brazen Member

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    Isn't that something like a difference between a 15 watt SS amp and a 15 watt tube amp? The tube sounds louder even though they're both the same wattage.
     
  15. jonnytexas

    jonnytexas Supporting Member

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    That can't be topped.
     
  16. smolder

    smolder Gold Supporting Member

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    Not 'research' per se, but I regularly ask my wife if it seemed loud after practicing. Every time I played through an 18watt with minimal headroom she said yes. I keep a decimal meter in the shop and use it. My fender cleans through JBL's always measured higher db's, but she never perceived that as loud.
     
  17. 335guy

    335guy Member

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    I've often heard that people perceive distortion as being louder. And that clear, un-distorted sounds are less "offensive", ie: not as loud.
     
  18. splatt

    splatt david torn / splattercell Gold Supporting Member

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    increase average volume without increasing peaks, and what he's done is done (i betcha);
    to boot, it's easy to do with existing tech.....
    unfortunately, it's in play on many mixes & many masters, and at a certain point it destroys natural musical dynamics.

    i can show you; it really is easy to do:
    squeeze 6dB out of the average volume of a file --- without touching "peaks" --- with an "impossibly" fast digital peak-limiter, and there ya go.....

    i've a hard time believing he's actually got an unassailable patent on already purchasable tech.
     
  19. walterw

    walterw Gold Supporting Member

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    TC earned themselves a s**tstorm over on talkbass when it came out that their "450 watt" bass amps were really only capable of like 225 measured watts but through various baked-in EQ and compression tricks were "as loud as" the 450 watt rating that TC claimed for them.
     
  20. raph

    raph Member

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    ^^^ what splatt said and walterw said

    A combination of compression and expansion (increasing dynamic range) and applying it based on frequencies. Speaker cone size also makes a difference to perceived volume, so some frequencies can be sent to more smaller speakers (sound carries less far) and other frequencies to fewer larger speakers which carry sound further and disturb neighbors.

    The science is in knowing which frequencies to send to which speakers after compression or expansion.

    At least that's my take on it.
     

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