Have a question about Cabs/Volume/Heads

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by ryanformato, Oct 8, 2006.

  1. ryanformato

    ryanformato Member

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    Right now I am using a Mesa 4x12 and a Marshall JCM 800 head (50 watt tube). While playing with a a full band, I still have to keep the Marshall volume down, so I was wondering is this due to the high wattage or the 4x12 cabinet.

    If I got a 1x12 cabinet and pumped the volume, would I just blow the speaker or would it just be quieter?
     
  2. trisonic

    trisonic Member

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    You'll need to give much more info before people will answer.

    Start with: What speakers in 4x12? What speaker in 1x12?
    For example I have a 2x12 cabinet that cannot exceed 50watts yet I have a 1x12 that can handle 200watts by itself.....

    Best, Pete.
     
  3. ryanformato

    ryanformato Member

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    I currently have a Mesa cabinet with 4x12's of V30's. What I am asking is, how much quieter will my sound be if I get a 1x12. The 1x12 is just hypothetical now....if you know what I mean. Thanks.
     
  4. HeeHaw

    HeeHaw Member

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    I have a friend that is using a 50 watt JCM 800 and was having the same problem. 4 speakers sound great but they move a lot of air. I sold him one of my 1x12's with an Eminence GB12 and he couldn't be more happier. I've been using 1x12's for a while now because of the same problem you are having. My favorite is an oversized Mojotone with a closed back I found in the emporium. I loaded it with a scumback HP and absolutely gig the fool out of it. My situation my be different from yours though. Typically we mic our amps back stage and build sound stops around them and listen to ourselves through in-ear monitors. That way, sound doesn't bleed into the vocal mics.

    Good luck in the never ending battle of: "Your guitar is too loud".:horse :D
     
  5. ryanformato

    ryanformato Member

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    Is there any risk of blowing that 1 speaker because if I pumped my marshall up all the way, that is like 50 watts of tube going through the speaker...
     
  6. gulliver

    gulliver Member

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    A single V30 should take it, but there's always a risk. I had a speaker just die with no abuse ... it was just it's time. Maybe get a 2x12 wired in parallel so you'll always have fail-over.

    I'll assume your 4x12 has the typical slanted top. If you're standing right in front of it, that may be making it loud for you. Some guys go with the bottom 4x12 cab just for that reason.

    Adding speakers adds efficiency, and increases volume quit a bit without needing more power in the amp. So ... yes, you will get less loudness with less speakers, and can turn your amp up more for more power tube compression and/or clipping. You can also get an attenuator to do this. Keep in mind, You will get more speaker distortion with less speakers as well, how much difference depends on the volume and the speaker.
     
  7. HeeHaw

    HeeHaw Member

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    I use 65 watt rated speakers and haven't cooked one yet.
     
  8. rockon1

    rockon1 Member

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    For the power rating I would say a MINIMUM rating of 75 watts if your going to crank the amp.Even more would be better as a fully cranked 50 watt amp puts out probably closer to 80 + watts.For instance I overheated a V30(60 watts) recently playing my 50 watt head thru it cranked. Didnt blow it but started to smell the voice coil melting!:eek: As for volume it will depend a lot on the efficiency of the speaker. For instance Ive got a combo with a Tonker that seems almost as loud as my 4x12. The tonker is rated at 102 db and has a stiff cone. The 4x12 has a mix of 2 inefficient speakers and 2 G12H-30's rated at 100 db.(Sidenote- you might want a stiffer speaker for a 1x12 cab. Otherwise you might end upper with too much cone break up even if it can handle the power.) So with a speaker that can handle the power and isnt TOO efficient it will be quieter. How much will depend on the speaker.
     
  9. portcitymusic

    portcitymusic Supporting Member

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    A 4x12 will move a lot more air than a 1x12 with the same head driving it. So less volume/quieter. You will have to choose your speaker wisely though or you will kill it. rockon1's idea is good. I hope everything works out for you.
     
  10. ryanformato

    ryanformato Member

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    I'll probably end up getting a 2x12 to ensure I don't melt anything :) Thanks for all your help.
     
  11. thesedaze

    thesedaze Member

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    It's not an issue at all with a 1x12 if the speaker's RMS is rated to handle 50+ watts.

    Just make sure you have a sturdy 1x12 cabinet that won't shake and rattle with the pressure of the speaker.
     
  12. ryanformato

    ryanformato Member

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    When they rate a speaker, do they rate it at a "tube" or solid state wattage? 50 watts of tube going through the speaker is going to be different than 50 watts of solid state isn't it?
     
  13. thesedaze

    thesedaze Member

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    Not in my understanding. I think you might be confusing the age old question of SS vs Tube Wattage -> Decibals
     
  14. BIGGERSTAFF

    BIGGERSTAFF Member

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    You could always keep the 4x12, and put less efficient speakers in it(i.e. G12M Heritages, which are 96db speakers, and should handle 50w no problem.
     
  15. billdurham

    billdurham Member

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    Ryan,

    The R.M.S rating of a speaker is a true mathematical rating of what it will take. RMS = Root Mean Square, which is the square root of 2, or .707 times the peak rating of the speaker. If the RMS rating of the speaker is above the output rating of the amp, you are pretty safe. I say pretty safe because as you say, the "tube" rating of amps is usually pretty conservative.

    BD
     

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