Hayseed 30 vs Vox AC30 TBX Clips inside

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by wilder, Feb 26, 2006.


  1. wilder

    wilder Supporting Member

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    This past Thursday fellow board member gkelm (Greg) was kind enough to bring out his Vox AC30 TBX with Celestion Blues to A/B with my Valvetech Hayseed 30 also loaded with Celestion Blues. The location was my rehearsal studio in Denton, TX. which we have equipped for semi-pro recording. Greg also brought his Victoria Double Deluxe which we compared with my SDG Vintage 5E3 Deluxe, but that's not the point of this post. Forum member Colt was also on hand as well as various other gearheads and rehearsal studio regulars.

    The clips below were recorded with a Sennheiser E609 Silver mic placed halfway up the cone of the left speaker in each amp. The guitar was a Warmoth tele with a Peter Florance Voodoo in the bridge and a G&L MFD in the neck. Colt and his buddy Spencer provided the chops. The amps were both set on the top boost/brilliant channel with the volumes and all EQ knobs straight up at 12 o'clock. In retrospect it would have been better to try to EQ the amps to sound as close as possible to one another. The variables of pot taper and capacitor values make the Hayseed seem brighter and the TBX warmer. Suffice it to say that they can be EQ'ed to sound virtually identical. For the record, my Hayseed has two 16 ohm blues wired in parallel for an 8 ohm load. Greg's TBX has two 8 ohm blues wired in series for a 16 ohm load.


    Edit 3-1-06: A more fair/controlled version of these comparison clips has been recorded and can be found Here:

    http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=135149




    Clips:

    Hayseed Tom Petty Progression - Tele bridge pup

    TBX Tom Petty Progression - Tele bridge pup

    Hayseed Groove - Tele neck pup

    TBX Groove - Tele neck pup

    Hayseed Lick 1 - Tele neck pup

    TBX Lick 1 - Tele neck pup

    Hayseed Lick 2 - Tele neck pup

    TBX Lick 2 - Tele neck pup

    Just for the edification of board members who might be interested we recorded a couple of clips of the Hayseed's EF86 channel:

    EF86 Normal - Tele neck pup channel volume at 2 o'clock

    EF86 Brilliant - Tele neck pup channel volume at 2 o'clock

    Major thanks to Colt, Spencer and especially Greg for their help in getting this done. It was fun. I might have had a few too many to make any kind of empirical judgement, but both amps sounded great to me. I've developed a theory that Celstion Blues in any well designed tube amp will result in killer tone. Pics below.

    The amps:
    [​IMG]
    Colt: (The tele used is in the background along with my Hamer Monaco Superpro)
    [​IMG]
    Greg:
    [​IMG]

    It wasn't a purely scientific evaluation, but I hope it's helpful to those who were wondering about this comparison. Feel free to email me if you have any questions or if you want the 40 MB zip file of the original wavs of these clips.

    Thanks,

    Chris
     
  2. granite

    granite Member

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    Very cool! Sound clips of the Hayseed are always in demand. The Hayseed sounds brighter. I recently sold my Hayseed for financial reasons. About the only thing negative I can say is that I wanted more out the distorted tones. Something was missing for me. The clean chimmey tones were first rate especially when tweeked with my BJF SBEQ.
    I just wanted more complex grit on the distorted end, if that makes sense. Excellent value and top notch build quality from Rob.
     
  3. Blueser

    Blueser Member

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    Very nice. The Hayseed is certainly a bargain when you consider what you're getting for the price. I wonder if you can EQ the Hayseed to get that same warm, crushed glass jangle the the TBX was delivering in those clips? I suspect a lot of that has to do with the transformers as well.

    In any event, the clips were cool! Good Job!
     
  4. eric102673

    eric102673 Member

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    Maybe it's jsut the speakers I was listening on, but to me the Hayseed sounds much more high-fi on each clip than the Vox. Cool stuff guys...

    -e.
     
  5. hendrix2430

    hendrix2430 Member

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    Yes, judging from the clips, the hayseed is way brighter than the vox. Depends on what you prefer. Personally, the tone I like best out of all the clips were the EF86 sounds.
     
  6. bscepter

    bscepter Member

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    Very cool! The Hayseed does sound brighter overall. What kind of OT does it have? If Heyboer, does it have Rob's "Mercury Mod?"

    Mine has the MM OT, which sounds great through my Blues -- though I play mine near dimed most of the time, so it sounds quite a bit different! (Gotta love the AC30 circuit -- one of the most versatile non-switching amps out there!).
     
  7. * velcro-fly *

    * velcro-fly * Supporting Member

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    I think that the Hayseed can be dialed in to sound near identical the Vox - if for no other reason than it's a dead nuts clone circuit and not Rob's "take" on an AC30.

    Blues are the answer for these amps, agreed, whether they be Celestion or Weber.

    gkelm - sweet Hamer ;)

    Steve E
     
  8. propska

    propska Member

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    Thanks for the clips. Wondering what tubes are the amps running on?
     
  9. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

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    Without pulling any punches, the Vox blew the hayseed out of the water.

    Hayseed. 2 Dimensional, harsh, no depth.

    Vox. Deep, rich, 3d.

    The same thing I find with most boutiques when A/bd with the originals.

    Want a bargain? Put the CC up against that Vox. It sounds exactly the same, with WAY more tones available, and reverb as well. The cloners need to do more homework.

    Thanks for doing these clips. As I always say, actually HEARING the amps is worth more than all of the words in the world. Nice job!
     
  10. michael.e

    michael.e Silver Supporting Member

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    I tend to agree. Mostly.....

    It was very apparent to me that there was much more "complexity" going on in the all important midrange in the Vox, than in the Hayseed. The Hayseed sounded a bit more sterile [some would say Hi-Fi] to me. Vox type amps are not Hi-Fi in any way. What they do offer is glorious chime and upper range harmonic's.

    In critical listening to both the TBX and the CC's...
    TBX wins every time for me. I found the top end of the CC's that I have played to be very flat sounding [missing harmonic's maybe?] and became very tiring after a time. I have never heard an original or a TBX sound like that in tonal quality, let alone tone. I take that back.... The AC15 90's reissue w/2-10's did not impress me.

    Hearing amps through computer speakers after the soundfiles have been compressed and whatnot is never going to be anywhere near the real tone of these amps. Sure, you can optimize your recordings for creating soundfiles for your buddies or potential customers on the net, but it is never going to be anywhere near what is potentially heard in a live or professionally recorded setting.

    I am sure the Hayseed still sounded fantastic when you guys were playing it.

    Thanks very much for posting the comparisons
    :BEER

    M.E.
     
  11. trisonic

    trisonic Member

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    Er, I thought the Vox sounded better too........
    Is it just me but the Hayseed sounds more like one of the Dr.Z models (which one eludes me, right now).

    Best, Pete.
     
  12. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

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    You and I always disagree on this, and thats fine. HOWEVER, A/Bing the two amps, I found the CC to do ANYTHING the normal RI could do, and so much more. Unlike yourself, I found the TBX to lack depth. Its probably the Transformers I am hearing, as VOX took the greatest pains in the CCs trannies. They build them all themselves. To get the CC to sound just like the TBX, just leave the MV wide open. What a killer amp! Mine still blows me away every single day. Since we hear these so different, everyone should drag these two amps side by side for themselves, and REALLY listen! Choose which ever sounds better to them. Im sure we can agree on that.


    One other thing this shows. Because an amp is a "Handwired boutique" does in NO WAY mean it is going to sound better. Guys need to get over the cork sniffy reading thing and use their ears. Thanks to boards like this, and guys actually posting CLIPS, we, the consumer, can find out what is best for us.
    VERY GOOD VERY GOOD!
    :BEER
     
  13. The Pup

    The Pup Supporting Member

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    I liked the TBX sound clips better too.

    Sounds like the Hayseed was too bright and lacked some mid-freq presence.

    Was this a Hayboer equipped Hayseed?

    Note: I modded my Hayboer Hayseed with Rob's (Valvetech) latest circuit change and it sounds great (mine has a Weber 30w AlNiCo Blue Pup and Silver Bell mix).

    Thanks for the clips!
     
  14. The Pup

    The Pup Supporting Member

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    Also, I think the AC30CC is a great sounding amp too. It's a wonderful time to get world-class tones for very little money!
     
  15. The Pup

    The Pup Supporting Member

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    You know...on second thought, depending on where you're standing in relation to the amp...it's possible that the Hayseed in these clips would cut through the mix better as the high-freqs disperse about the room.
     
  16. The Pup

    The Pup Supporting Member

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    Note: I play my Hayseed with the Lo and Hi straight up at 12'oclock and the cut control varies depending on the guitar...mostly full CCW.

    Lately I seem to be using the EF86 TB channel exclusively.
     
  17. sundaypunch

    sundaypunch Member

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    I agree as well. I think the Hayseed would have benefitted from tweaking the EQ a bit rather than dialing in all the controls at noon. I have a blonde Bassman and a mild tweak of the treble knob results in it going from being muddy to take-your-head-off trebly.

    I am also interested in what tubes the amps are equipped with and whether the speakers are broken in for each? I have a Hayseed and it sounded very stiff until the blues got broken in. Also, getting rid of the JJ's and re-tubing with NOS Polams and a Telefunken EF86 made it sound like a wet blanket was taken off the amp.

    No clips, but I had the exact opposite experience of this test a week ago with my Hayseed and a friends mid 90's Vox AC30. Both amps w/ blues. We didn't do the comparison with all the knobs turned to the same position though. We did it by ear to get them to sound as if the EQ was similar. The Hayseed sounded considerably better than the Vox although to be fair, he had cheap tubes in the amp.

    I owned an unmolested '63 candy panel AC30 w/ blues that I ended up selling after getting the Hayseed. It's not that the Hayseed was a better amp, just more versatile for me with the 1/2 power, MV, and EF86 channel. I found tube selection to be a major factor in how both amps sounded. Personally, I was not overly impressed with the Hayseed until putting decent tubes in it.
     
  18. talpa

    talpa Member

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    Thanks for the clips, awesome. Wish I still lived in Coppell, I'd come up with my 6V6 Silvertone.

    1.) I still want to order a Hayseed - sounds incredible just needs EQ.
    2.) I played the AC15CC @ local shop at very low volume, which we know now sounds like crap. THESE clips totally reverse my opinion about that $600 amp. Man I might just have to have both in a TC stereo mix ! Great amp at volume.

    Everyone should go back and listen to these clips repeatedly. They keep getting better and better every 30 minutes lol.
    I like BOTH of these amps !

    Jim
     
  19. ericb

    ericb Silver Supporting Member

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    Yikes, they really don't sound alike at all. The Vox sounds way way better too. Did you try to make the Hayseed sound like the Vox? Or just dial it in to what you found to be the best sound? The Vox was WAY more airy and rich. .. I found the same to be true when I borrowed my friend's AC30tbx and then bought a Tophat Club Royale II . I kept the Tophat for 2-3 years but always preferred the Vox . Of course this is contrary to what others might or might not experience, but I have no doubts of what I like the best. The TOPhat did sound way better with Mullard/Amperex el84's and that added a lot of richness that the Ge, EI, SOvteks, and JJ's could'nt produce, but the Vox didn't need them to be rich as all getout! ERIC
     
  20. talpa

    talpa Member

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    Can the CC series be rewired to add the EF86 channel in some form or fashion ? That would be killer.
     

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