HD four cable method.

Discussion in 'Digital & Modeling Gear' started by beavisguitar99, Feb 19, 2012.

  1. beavisguitar99

    beavisguitar99 Member

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    So for the past year and a half I've been playing my HD through the front of a solid state stack. I purchased a tube head last week, a Bugera 55watt V55HD head. While some may hate on the Bugera brand I'm okay with it as the value was right at a little over $200 for a used all tube head. Long story short I like the tone of the head along with my tube screamer. I don't own a lot of pedals so I needed to get my HD in the mix and the best way I've heard about is the four cable method.

    I hooked it up as stated in the line 6 instruction video, but I was greated by a TON of noise. Perhaps I need to buy some new cables. Noise aside the four cable method added low end to dream about. Palm mutes just bleed low end.....but I had so much noise it almost sounded like I had a delay going on, and I didn't.

    So questions:

    -Should I be using the amp PRE models with the four cable method?
    -Does the four cable method cause more noise, or should I invest in better cables?
    -How do I tell if my effects loop is serial, or parallel? And does that make a dig difference for the four cable method.
    -My tube screamer/V55HD combo screams, but when disabling the amp sim and using the HD tube screamer for FX I don't get the same reaction. What gives?
     
  2. beavisguitar99

    beavisguitar99 Member

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    Dave Hester: BUUUUUUMMMMP.
     
  3. hanales

    hanales Member

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    Is the effects loop send level adjustable on your amp?

    Is it noise or is it hum?
     
  4. dannopelli

    dannopelli Member

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    You got no responses because this has been discussed many times here and on the Line 6 support page. Heck if you googled it this is just a few of what you get:

    http://line6.com/support/thread/55328

    http://line6.com/support/thread/47323

    http://line6.com/support/docs/DOC-2504

    On the Line 6 pages pay special note to anything by nickmattocks. He gets is perfectly right all the time.

    But probably the BEST guide to using a POD HD 500 is here:

    http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=1034025

    There are many other good threads here on TGP regarding achieving good tone with the HD 500. But it is NOT plug and play. You do have to do your homework.
     
  5. drwiddly

    drwiddly Member

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    I don't use Line 6 HD gear so I can't give you specific advice but I have used Line 6 gear in the past, including 4CM into a tube combo.

    Unless you can switch between the HD's preamp and the Bugera preamp (as you can with e.g. a Digitech GSP1101) you should not be using preamp models into the front of the amp. You'll have a preamp going into another preamp and that's likely to create a lot of noise and sound bad.

    The 4CM should not cause any extra noise but you may have a ground loop. Is the noise hum or hiss or what? Getting better cables is always a good idea, especially for longer runs, to reduce noise. Can you use balanced cables with the HD? If so, it's worth doing that as they don't cost much more and they will reduce noise. If the noise is mainly hiss, have you tried the HD's noise gate?

    Your amp's manual should tell you whether the loop is serial or parallel. Check the Bugera site if you don't have it. I find serial is usually better in this sort of set up.

    In my (limited) experience, Line 6 front end effects (overdrives, compressors, etc.) don't sound very good into amplifiers (they're OK when used with the internal models). I could never get the OD's to work with my amp no matter how I set things up.

    Good luck.
     
  6. dannopelli

    dannopelli Member

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    Not necessarily the case any longer. Lots of folks are using the HD 500 in place of analog pedal boards. The HD is way different into an amp than the XT series.

    I replaced this:

    [​IMG]


    With this:

    [​IMG]
     
  7. meambobbo

    meambobbo Member

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    The low end thing makes me wonder...Is this because you added EQ via the Pod? It shouldn't change your tone or add low end, unless you dialed that in. If you like it, great, but I wonder if something is set up possibly incorrectly...

    a lot of people recommend the pre, but i prefer full even when running into an amp. they sound thicker, plus you can tweak the DEPs to get greater versatility from the models. If anything, just turn down the Master Volume DEP to taste, and you'll get closer and closer to the "pre" tone. also, you can turn up the Bias to get less of a power tube sound, but I actually usually prefer to turn this down a bit. See http://foobazaar.com/podhd/toneGuide/gettingStarted#fullVsPre

    The 4CM uses more unbalanced cables which will accept interference and add more noise to the signal. Unless you are using long cables of suspect quality; however, you won't really notice the added noise. Interference, on the other hand, depends on your environment - if you're surrounded by florescent lights it will likely be a larger problem. You may be able to use a Hum Eliminator or something like that to get rid of any hum from interference.

    If your effects loop says its stereo, it's most likely parallel. I'm not sure I've ever heard of a serial effects loop. That'd be two effects loops back to back.

    The Tube Screamer in the Pod HD isn't great by any means. I nearly always prefer to use the Classic Distortion effect instead. Just don't venture very far from 50% on the bass/filter/treble controls. I generally like bass slightly down, filter up to 65-75, and treble between 45-65. Don't set Drive to 0% or the tone gets really thin. You should maintain a clean tone up to 10-15% before getting slight breakup.
     
  8. Will Chen

    Will Chen Member

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    Per this document, the V55 has a serial loop. If you have a ton of noise, I can think of a few issues:

    1) If your trying to switch between your internal amp pre and the POD pre, you should switch off the tail function in the global menu. With it enabled, the send of the loop is bypassed rather than the return which means you'll get all the noise of your external preamp passing into your signal when using the POD's preamp.

    2) Are you stacking preamps? Don't. To use the HD 4 cable and switch between internal and external amps, you ought to place your FX loop in one of the HD's parallel paths and your amp model in the other and pan both to center. In addition to the tails tip above, through control assignments set the amp bypass volume to 0 so when you toggle between chains noise/signal bleed from one doesn't affect the other.

    3) Be sure to set the second input of the HD500 to one of the Variax settings to avoid doubling your input.
     

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