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HD500 with amp and Palmer routing question

SatelliteNine

Member
Messages
290
Wondering if anyone has tried a setup similar to this...

Guitar --> HD500 input
HD500 FX send --> Lonestar Special FX return
Lonestar --> Palmer PDI
Palmer PDI --> HD500 FX Return
HD500 --> l/r XLR to PA

this seems like it would offer a best of both worlds scenario - using only the 'pre' models in the pod, but offering great onstage sound (the HD500 sounds good plugged into the return of the LSS), and the ability to have a nice, cab emulated sound sent to the PA for the soundguy to control.

any thoughts?
 

SatelliteNine

Member
Messages
290
just saw the flaw in this setup... all my "post" effects like delays and verbs would be sent to PA only and not the amp. back to the drawing board. Basically, I've been thinking I'd like a nice tube amp to run with my 2x12 and Pod, but then realised, hey I've got a power amp and guitar cab in the form of the lonestar. I'd still like to get this to work, any advice would be appreciated.
 

meambobbo

Member
Messages
493
why not just put the pod hd's fx loop effect last in your chain, behind the post-amp fx in the pod hd?
 

meambobbo

Member
Messages
493
I really don't think there's gonna be an audible difference whether you put the reverb/delay effects in front of or behind the palmer cab sim.
 

SatelliteNine

Member
Messages
290
thanks for the suggestions - i'll try it out tonight and over the weekend... the reason I'm going back from the palmer into the pod is so that I can have a little room reverb very last in the chain, I like how it stereo-izes it, and makes the guitar sound pretty big over a decent PA. I could just run it through a stereo delay on the PA end as well I suppose, but that way tends to sound like a mono signal in a stereo room.
 

grorig

Member
Messages
114
There's an impedance and level mismatch, between the output of Pdi that's a mic out and the return of the Pod that's a line input.
There aren't rules, but the best way IMHO to connect them (using any modeller) as preamp is:

Guitar----> Pod IN
Pod OUT ----> Amp RET
Amp Speaker OUT---->Palmer in
Palmer THRU---->To speaker
Palmer MIC OUT----> to PA

Alternatively you can use the 2nd out of your Pod to the Palmers' input, and from the Palmers' Mic out to PA.
Palmer includes power amp simulation.
 

pir8matt

Member
Messages
5,688
I use full amp models but turn off cabs and go out to a Palmer PDI-09 into an Alto TS-112A and I think it sounds fantastic.

Doesn't really address what you're trying to do, but I think the Palmer is a good piece of gear to have in an HD500 toolkit. Doesn't sound great with the high gain amp models though. I think those really rely on the cab models to sound right.
 

SatelliteNine

Member
Messages
290
Shoot - cant find the spec for the Palmer, but my red box which is also a mic level 600 ohm output dampens a line level signal by 24 db. I may be looking at a more expensive rig to do what I want. Anyone know of a cab emulator with a line level out?
 

SatelliteNine

Member
Messages
290
Ooo radial jdx has output inpedance of 2k! I'll have to get my hands on one and compare the overall tone to the Palmer, which I quite like.
 

grorig

Member
Messages
114
Shoot - cant find the spec for the Palmer, but my red box which is also a mic level 600 ohm output dampens a line level signal by 24 db. I may be looking at a more expensive rig to do what I want. Anyone know of a cab emulator with a line level out?

You don't need more expensive rig, really. If you want stereo output from your POD, use two red box or palmer for each output of POD.

You can feed your amp return with a mono signal via the "thru" out of the Palmer or Red box. If you want the mix of L-R outs to your amp return,you have to place in the chain a "Combiner" or a small mixer, and send the two "thru" signals into.
 

SatelliteNine

Member
Messages
290
I want to avoid power amp and cab modelling in the pod, the weakest links IMHO, while having consistent stage and pa tone. What I've described allows me to have the pod pres and fx, which I like, with a real power amp, emulated speaker, and still go to the PA in stereo. I prefer the "amp in room" sound while playing, vs the mic'd amp tone of the pod into frfr (this has been the topic of debate around here), and this idea gives me the best of both worlds. I don't use too many amp models, and I don't care if it sounds exactly like a Marshall, Mesa, or vox, which is why I'm willing to have the same power and speaker modelling across the board. Using different pre models gives me more than enough flavours, combined with the interactivity of a "real" (no flames please) amp on stage
 

SatelliteNine

Member
Messages
290
I realize stereo is often unnecessary, undesirable, or impossible - this is a bit of mental model, proof of concept for MY ideal rig
 

grorig

Member
Messages
114
I want to avoid power amp and cab modelling in the pod, the weakest links IMHO, while having consistent stage and pa tone. What I've described allows me to have the pod pres and fx, which I like, with a real power amp, emulated speaker, and still go to the PA in stereo. I prefer the "amp in room" sound while playing, vs the mic'd amp tone of the pod into frfr (this has been the topic of debate around here), and this idea gives me the best of both worlds. I don't use too many amp models, and I don't care if it sounds exactly like a Marshall, Mesa, or vox, which is why I'm willing to have the same power and speaker modelling across the board. Using different pre models gives me more than enough flavours, combined with the interactivity of a "real" (no flames please) amp on stage
I use modellers in this way (as preamp) for many years on stage, and I completely understand what you want to get. Try what I have post before.
 

SatelliteNine

Member
Messages
290
I think the 2 di method sounds extremely viable. Would I not hypothetically then lose the advantage of running my foh signal through the power amp? The mixer would be fed by the pOd using the preamp models and the palmers snd.
 

meambobbo

Member
Messages
493
My power amp has multiple outputs and my old cab had 2 inputs. So two di's would work on my rig. If you have multiple outputs on your amp but only one input for your speaker cab you'd have to mod it to add a second input but make sure the amp and cab impedance is matched. Or you could run one to the cab and the other to a dummy load
 






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