Helix 2.8?

Discussion in 'Digital & Modeling Gear' started by JHand, Dec 26, 2018.

  1. Ugly Bunny

    Ugly Bunny Supporting Member

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    Completely untrue. Sure they may be more or less pricey with more or fewer features, but they do the exact same thing (replace amps & pedals with digital versions).

    I think you may be referring to their customers.

    I automatically disregard anything following this statement if it's a product I paid for. THEY need to be happy they have customers (and they are; they are great people with appreciative staff). Once my dollar is in their pocket, I am no longer content to "be happy" with whatever table scraps a particular company decides to throw me. I am now in the position of expectation: I expect the company to stand behind their products, provide regular updates, fix issues that arise, and be happy about doing it. Digital modelers are the one exception to the rule about buying it for what it does rather than what it can/should do: I bought my Helix with the full expectation that it was going to be supported and updated regularly (and don't get me wrong, I'm not at all disappointed; just providing counterbalance to the "be happy..." argument).

    It is. And I get that (thus why I said that after this update they should figure out a different method of releasing firmware updates.

    Look, I know my tone sounds severe, but it's only because I care. Frank, Eric, Igor - all the guys are AWESOME! The tones are great, the gear road worthy. My point is that - for whatever reason (excuse?) - a different company has a more palatable method of firmware releases. Sure, you can chalk it up to politics, parent companies, billions of different lines of products, but in the end, one modeler is getting loads of goodies all the time while another languishes in wait, while the fans get restless and, in some cases, downright rude or vulgar with each other.
     
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  2. MIJLOVER

    MIJLOVER Member

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    The duration of beta testing is hard to know in advance, but it's nice to know they're almost there. Looks like it'll be released in June! :)
     
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  3. Rayf

    Rayf Member

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    I can't believe 2.8 might actually get here before my Rack Control. Seriously, that thing has been on back order for almost a month.
     
  4. phil_m

    phil_m Supporting Member

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    Pick your poison, I guess... People have also been on the waitlist for going on 10 months for the Fractal foot controllers for the Axe FX III. Personally, I'd rather have the hardware in hand rather than wait for a firmware update.

    And my point isn’t to knock Fractal for the delay. Stuff happens that's outside of company's control. The MI industry is specialized enough and small enough that's it's not like you can put an ad up for a DSP engineer and have hundreds of resumes to sort through. So there are just kind of pinch points that happen.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2019
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  5. mikah912

    mikah912 Member

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    Well, you can't just disregard the reasons why there's a difference in cadence, then go "Well, in the end, Fractal still gets more regular release updates!"

    You don't think Fractal customers get restless either? There was just a thread on the forums there today begging for Cliff to take a Line 6-like approach to building out an ecosystem with a Helix Native-esque VST with the Ares UI and modeling. People there also want waaaaay more SKUs like a "FM7" or "FM6" or "FC3". They don't have all of the hardware options Line 6 fans have.

    There's no avoiding that if you're a top-tier modeling company. People will just get restless over different things for different companies.

    Consider that when 2.8 drops, Line 6 will have 14 new amp and effects models (7 of each).

    For context, Fractal dropped roughly the same number of new amp model and effects types for the Axe-FX III in the past 12 months (Less than 7 amp models, actually. It's mostly new types of existing effects). Even if 2.8 takes until mid-June, they will have done it in half the time from announcement of 2.8.
     
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  6. Ugly Bunny

    Ugly Bunny Supporting Member

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    It's funny that these two posts came right in a row, because yeah, that has been a huge point of contention even for Fractal fans. I know I've been on the wait list for the FC-12 since October? I jumped on the FM3 wait list the day it was announced and I expect my name to come up this time next year lol!!
     
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  7. Ugly Bunny

    Ugly Bunny Supporting Member

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    \
    You make a LOT of great points - points that are pretty indisputable. All I'm saying is that from a consumer standpoint the reasons don't matter. What matters, in the end, is what I have in my hands at the end of the day, regardless of how it got there.

    But I like the way you think; I took a bunch of management and leadership classes which made me develop a deep appreciation for customer service & satisfaction. I like seeing things from a developer's standpoint, such as what you're providing. The consumer in me still wants to argue, but the consumer in me is a fat, lazy, entitled American, so other than the dollars he spends, his opinions mean little.
     
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  8. MikeDV

    MikeDV Member

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    I had a TC Electronic G system for years that was updated - never that I was aware of. Different unit (no models), but still could have used some updating. Glad L6 is updating at all, no major problems with it, just little stuff that us whiny users want. Had multiple Fractal units, and got sick of the "more 3D, sounds so much better, it's the best ever. Also, you can now tweek the age of the rectifier tubes in the power amp sim... That last firmware update? Compared to this new one, it's a piece of crap." Seemed like that was every 4-6 weeks - maybe an (small) exaggeration, but that's what it seemed like.

    If they had announced a once/year update, it wouldn't have kept me from buying and using the Helix. Have to admit this "coming in Spring, next week, or the next, or maybe the next" might be kind of a silly approach. I'm getting my value updated or not. Free update is value added. Maybe next time, the day before it's ready, announce it will be coming out in a month, then release it in a week. Happy children.
     
  9. josetxu

    josetxu Member

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    I bet that either of them will come before Sgear 2.9...
     
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  10. Guitardave

    Guitardave Supporting Member

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    It's ok to compare and contrast between companies, etc. They're not going to approach things the same.

    I think people are arguing validly depending on what aspects they deem important.

    For me - the product launches from L6 have been impressive. More important than the firmware updates.

    LT, FX, Stomp, Powercab, Native all are significant releases. Unifying the code seems like a great next step.

    I'm not feeling neglected - let's see how things look in a few years.
     
  11. Ugly Bunny

    Ugly Bunny Supporting Member

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    What a coincidence: new firmware for the Axe III today. Don't give half a damn about any of the new features. Gonna skip it :bonk
     
  12. DeSelby

    DeSelby Member

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    I take it you mean 'isn’t'. In fact I'm pretty damn sure that’s what you mean :rolleyes: But with all the disputation and inflamed emotions running riot, thought I’d just ask. :mob
     
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  13. eoengineer

    eoengineer Supporting Member

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    Fellow fat, lazy, entitled American...and that made me laugh. Im also a software engineer, so I’m constantly at odds about my desire for frequent, feature-packed updates. I should know better.

    I’m glad that L6 is working on refactoring and restructuring the platform to allow prolonged, sustained growth.

    One of the most challenging conversations an engineer in an agile environment can have with a product owner (and then often product owner to whomever they report to, sometimes the CEO) is one trying to convey the value of paying down technical debt instead of putting a new feature in a users’ hands at the end of this sprint.

    The fact that Helix Core is happening is an acknowledgement that L6s engineers have their eyes on the ball, have a good relationship with their product owner, and are acting within an organization that understands what is needed to make software grow gracefully over time.

    The fact that they managed to pack a couple amps and FX in there is incredible.

    I’m not arguing against wanting new toys. I’m there too, but just wanted to add some additional perspective from the software side.

    You all are doing a great job @Digital Igloo.
     
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  14. Fireproof

    Fireproof Member

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    Well said! Totally agree!
     
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  15. Dave Merrill

    Dave Merrill Supporting Member

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    ^^^ This.
     
  16. thomasjg

    thomasjg Member

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    Romeo says, "Go!"
     
  17. John Mark Painter

    John Mark Painter Silver Supporting Member

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    Funny thing.

    I am also a photographer going through the same process as I am with guitar and recording gear.
    I have used and owned the classics, had a dark room, processed my own film.
    I have slowly sold off most of old cameras and kept some things that can be used 'hybrid' with new technology.

    Tons of software emulations to simulate film and darkroom techniques as well as old cameras.

    I have a Nikon D700 that listed for $3,000 in 2008.
    Can be bought used now for $400-$600 and they are still VERY good at what they do.
    Nikon has had two firmware updates that added no features other than compatibility with a new stupidly expensive lens that they put out.

    I also have a more compact Fuji X100T. Same deal.
    Fuji isn't adding new film emulations a couple times a year....

    I love my Helix updates. That was a reason I was attracted to their gear.
    But I bought it for what it does now.
     
  18. Hank Habanero

    Hank Habanero Member

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    I'm not even sure which exact software my 3 Helixes are running. One is like 2.3X, one is 2.5X and one maybe 2.7X or something.

    I will probably upgrade all of them to 2.8 when it is released (no Beta for me though), but I'm in no rush whatsoever.

    It's not wrong to want updates, but even a Helix with "outdated" software has basically every kind of amp you can imagine (in an broader sense) and the same thing for FX except for certan pitch and synth stuff, basically. I honestly don't get how so many users are OBSESSED with these updates. It is an amp sim/FX unit, not a video game. ;)
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2019
  19. eoengineer

    eoengineer Supporting Member

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    You make a point. Helix already contains the core amp circuits from which many modern boutique circuits are derived. We are likely well into the territory of diminishing returns.

    That’s not to say that subtle differences aren’t there, but I also think many of those gaps can be narrowed with as little as an EQ in front of the amp model.
     
  20. holden_caufield9

    holden_caufield9 Supporting Member

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    I'm more waiting on the functionality for Powercab+. It will be nice to actually use it as it was intended when I bought it. I have gigs coming up and it would be nice to know when it will be out so I can plan my rig. Not really wanting to install an update 2 days before a gig and waiting isn't my favorite option because it would be really handy to be able to reliably switch speakers models and go to FRFR for acoustic.
     

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