Helix 2.8?

Elric

Supporting Member
Messages
4,395
Helix owners can never be accused being quiet about our gear - nearly 80 pages of speculation about a firmware release!
Even more odd: it seems to be primarily an internal architecture update rather than a bunch of user facing features, right? That was my memory from 80pages back and months ago anyway. Can't imagine why anyone would wear out their F5 key over something that is mostly an under the hood thing.
 

mikah912

Member
Messages
6,612
Exactly my point. Regular means different things in different situations. If you went once a year to the mom and pop store near you you'd never call yourself a regular customer, would you? 8 months is a bit long, people are getting anxious, but I don't see anyone calling L6 names or anything, I don't get what's the big deal.
That it's presumptuous, maybe? They're already working on the firmware update after this (2.9), so I'm fairly certain it'll drop before Dec. 31 of this year - which would obviate your "once a year" straw man entirely.

Even if 2.9 only had the three missing channels of the Revv Generator 120 amp and nothing else, the combination of 2.8 and 2.9 would still be more new amp models than any company - even Fractal - has added in the past 12 months. And since Line 6 has dropped pretty much 2-3 major updates every single year of the Helix's existence....this would be a regular occurrence.
 

voi666

Member
Messages
23
it don't get the obsession with firmware release dates. are you planning a vacation around the release?

live your live, do your thing and be pleasantly surprised when you get free, new functionality and amps/effects (and say thank you ... l6 don't have to do this, beyond bug fixes).
 

Digital Igloo

Member
Messages
4,189
Line6 from the start said that regular updates was part of the product.
No we didn't. The most we've ever said is "we have big plans." We've also said "always buy a product for what it does today, never for what you hope it'll do in the future." Lots of people like to put words in our mouths.
A lot can happen in 7 days.
I've said it before, but we NEVER know a firmware update's release date until about 10 minutes before it's released. Works like this: Build release candidate, shoot for a 1pm (or whenever) release, find last minute bug(s), cancel the release, fix the bug(s), build a new release candidate the next morning, shoot for 1pm (or whenever) release, find last minute bug(s), cancel the release, rinse and repeat. 2.80 is no different, but we're not at release candidate yet.
If a developer ever publishes a specific release date, it's generally to align marcom, print ads, web ads, other PR, events, reviews, etc. and the software/app/game/movie/show/album/single has been ready to release long before that date. If everyone prefers we finish 2.80 and then sit on it for weeks or months until some arbitrary release date, so people can feel warm and fuzzy and do the whole countdown thing, we can totally do that.
Frankly, I'm surprised this release isn't 3.0. Usually a significant code rewrite like this would call for a new version.
It's more like 3.0 and 4.0 from a development scope perspective, but the user-facing model list and feature set warrants more of a point release.






At this point, we simply don't know if 2.80 will be out before the 21st. Some days it doesn't look good; other days it does. We're not going to provide play-by-play.

The hotkey templates are fun as hell, that's for sure. Played Portal 2 with my feet last night. The night before, I tracked dozens of guitar takes in Logic without ever touching a mouse or keyboard.
 

Jarick

Supporting Member
Messages
7,596
Even more odd: it seems to be primarily an internal architecture update rather than a bunch of user facing features, right? That was my memory from 80pages back and months ago anyway. Can't imagine why anyone would wear out their F5 key over something that is mostly an under the hood thing.
No, there's a bunch of amps and effects too.
 

jaded_musician

Silver Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Messages
3,331
No we didn't. The most we've ever said is "we have big plans." We've also said "always buy a product for what it does today, never for what you hope it'll do in the future." Lots of people like to put words in our mouths.I've said it before, but we NEVER know a firmware update's release date until about 10 minutes before it's released. Works like this: Build release candidate, shoot for a 1pm (or whenever) release, find last minute bug(s), cancel the release, fix the bug(s), build a new release candidate the next morning, shoot for 1pm (or whenever) release, find last minute bug(s), cancel the release, rinse and repeat. 2.80 is no different, but we're not at release candidate yet.If a developer ever publishes a specific release date, it's generally to align marcom, print ads, web ads, other PR, events, reviews, etc. and the software/app/game/movie/show/album/single has been ready to release long before that date. If everyone prefers we finish 2.80 and then sit on it for weeks or months until some arbitrary release date, so people can feel warm and fuzzy and do the whole countdown thing, we can totally do that.It's more like 3.0 and 4.0 from a development scope perspective, but the user-facing model list and feature set warrants more of a point release.






At this point, we simply don't know if 2.80 will be out before the 21st. Some days it doesn't look good; other days it does. We're not going to provide play-by-play.

The hotkey templates are fun as hell, that's for sure. Played Portal 2 with my feet last night. The night before, I tracked dozens of guitar takes in Logic without ever touching a mouse or keyboard.
Carry on my wayward son
 

patriciogac

Member
Messages
310
I think that if the list of things to fix is very small, once a year is regular for updates. In this case the lis of Ideas and features that Line6 and custumers want to be included is pretty large, so for me 3 times per year is "frecuent/regular" updates, and I understand is the intention in Line6 to put regular updates into Helix platform, and Core will help that to be true....
 

Jarick

Supporting Member
Messages
7,596
That it's presumptuous, maybe? They're already working on the firmware update after this (2.9), so I'm fairly certain it'll drop before Dec. 31 of this year - which would obviate your "once a year" straw man entirely.

Even if 2.9 only had the three missing channels of the Revv Generator 120 amp and nothing else, the combination of 2.8 and 2.9 would still be more new amp models than any company - even Fractal - has added in the past 12 months. And since Line 6 has dropped pretty much 2-3 major updates every single year of the Helix's existence....this would be a regular occurrence.
Helix users should be extremely happy compared to Fractal AX8 users.

In the last two years, Helix has added:
Mesa Lonestar (clean, drive)
Friedman BE-100 (clean, BE, HBE)
Victoria Electro King
Trainwreck Express
Marshall Plexi 1987 (normal, bright, jumpered)
Ben Adrian Cartographer
Aguilar DB751

Dallas Rangemaster
Boss DS-1 (stock, mod)
Simple Looper
Multitap Delay
Glitz Reverb
Ganymede Reverb
Searchlights Reverb
Plateaux Reverb
Double Tank Reverb
Xotic EP Booster
Xotic SP Compressor
Thrifter Fuzz
Lightfoot Goatkeeper
Doubler
Roland Space Echo
77 different M-series effects


In the last two years, AX8 has added:
Friedman 2018 (BE, C45)
Friedman C45 (BE, HBE)
Plexi 2204

Darkglass B7K

And in a few weeks, Helix will add:
Fender Tweed Deluxe
Grammatico LaGrange
Revv Generator 120
Ampeg SVT-4

Hermida Zendrive
Analogman King of Tone
Tech 21 Sansamp Bass
Ampeg Scrambler
Moog Moogerfooger

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume Fractal won't be adding a ton of stuff to the AX8 in the next few weeks...or ever.
 

mikah912

Member
Messages
6,612
Helix users should be extremely happy compared to Fractal AX8 users.

In the last two years, Helix has added:
Mesa Lonestar (clean, drive)
Friedman BE-100 (clean, BE, HBE)
Victoria Electro King
Trainwreck Express
Marshall Plexi 1987 (normal, bright, jumpered)
Ben Adrian Cartographer
Aguilar DB751

Dallas Rangemaster
Boss DS-1 (stock, mod)
Simple Looper
Multitap Delay
Glitz Reverb
Ganymede Reverb
Searchlights Reverb
Plateaux Reverb
Double Tank Reverb
Xotic EP Booster
Xotic SP Compressor
Thrifter Fuzz
Lightfoot Goatkeeper
Doubler
Roland Space Echo
77 different M-series effects

In the last two years, AX8 has added:

Friedman 2018 (BE, C45)
Friedman C45 (BE, HBE)
Plexi 2204

Darkglass B7K
True, and the amount of new amps compares in Helix's favor even if you loop in the work done on Ares/Axe-FX III. And they don't have a plug-in version, much less one that's continually being updated.
 

Rayf

Member
Messages
368
The hotkey templates are fun as hell, that's for sure. Played Portal 2 with my feet last night. The night before, I tracked dozens of guitar takes in Logic without ever touching a mouse or keyboard.
I'm excited for the Deluxe, Grammatico and the overdrive pedals, but I really want to put the hotkeys to work. I've counted a dozen times in the last month or two where I'm trying to learn a new guitar lick on Youtube and wish I could go back a few seconds or slow things down without using my hands.

Anway, thanks for the update. Sounds like you guys are putting in some serious hours.
 

The Funk

Member
Messages
4,510
They provided an estimate, which was explicitly NOT a promise or a contract written in stone. They're not in breach of anything regardless of when it ships.

And this exactly conversation is why they're reluctant to tell us even what they have.
Exactly. This sort of thing happens all the time in software. You set a feature set and you set a release goal. Usually that goal is aggressive but doable. A lot of times it gets pushed. It's hard to estimate in advance how long an unknown set of bugs can take to fix. If it looks like you might miss the date, but come close, you don't say anything. A day here or there isn't going to matter unless you are doing a big product release, in which case you will have it ready well in advance. If you want to stick strictly to a date, you have to cut scope, which in this case means not delivering the promised feature set. This would not be acceptable to Line 6. Since they haven't said that they are expecting a major delay, and we know people are beta testing versions in the field, chances are it's a matter of a couple days to a couple weeks before it will be released. I'd be surprised if it was more than 2 weeks late, but theres an outside chance it could be, especially as people go on vacation in the summer, so some resources might be gone. But you never know. There could be something really weird, like if you have the Zen drive on, and you try to switch an amp channel the Zen drive turns into a chorus, but only if the gain is at 62%. That sort of thing would take time to identify as a bug, time to replicate it, and then time to diagnose and fix. But something so weird as that can come up late in the process since it's such an edge case.
 

Tito83

Member
Messages
2,663
No we didn't. The most we've ever said is "we have big plans." We've also said "always buy a product for what it does today, never for what you hope it'll do in the future." Lots of people like to put words in our mouths.
I apologize. That was the impression I had, and I'm pretty sure it's what most people think which reinforced it. I stand corrected.

Realistically though, Helix belongs to a product niche that regular (will everyone be happier if I use frequent instead?) updates is pretty much expected. And we all know you want that also, because you want happy customers. Like a movie channel, maybe their catalog is cool, but I think it's expected of them to add new stuff regularly, isn't it? Even though you never really had a written document to force them to do so. As such, I think it's reasonable to imagine a person can buy a product for what it does today AND for what it might do in the future - both at the same time. Isn't it?
 

Darkness

Member
Messages
2,171
Helix users should be extremely happy compared to Fractal AX8 users.

In the last two years, Helix has added:
Mesa Lonestar (clean, drive)
Friedman BE-100 (clean, BE, HBE)
Victoria Electro King
Trainwreck Express
Marshall Plexi 1987 (normal, bright, jumpered)
Ben Adrian Cartographer
Aguilar DB751

Dallas Rangemaster
Boss DS-1 (stock, mod)
Simple Looper
Multitap Delay
Glitz Reverb
Ganymede Reverb
Searchlights Reverb
Plateaux Reverb
Double Tank Reverb
Xotic EP Booster
Xotic SP Compressor
Thrifter Fuzz
Lightfoot Goatkeeper
Doubler
Roland Space Echo
77 different M-series effects


In the last two years, AX8 has added:
Friedman 2018 (BE, C45)
Friedman C45 (BE, HBE)
Plexi 2204

Darkglass B7K

And in a few weeks, Helix will add:
Fender Tweed Deluxe
Grammatico LaGrange
Revv Generator 120
Ampeg SVT-4

Hermida Zendrive
Analogman King of Tone
Tech 21 Sansamp Bass
Ampeg Scrambler
Moog Moogerfooger

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume Fractal won't be adding a ton of stuff to the AX8 in the next few weeks...or ever.
Colored text is hell on us colorblind people. Why do you hate us so much?
 

mikah912

Member
Messages
6,612
Realistically though, Helix belongs to a product niche that regular (will everyone be happier if I use frequent instead?) updates is pretty much expected. And we all know you want that also, because you want happy customers. Like a movie channel, maybe their catalog is cool, but I think it's expected of them to add new stuff regularly, isn't it? Even though you never really had a written document to force them to do so. As such, I think it's reasonable to imagine a person can buy a product for what it does today AND for what it might do in the future - both at the same time. Isn't it?
Again, they're doing their best to add stuff as they can. As part of a big corporation with a managed budget, however, there are generally only two ways to get the green light and money thrown at IT resources:

1) Knock down bugs to placate existing customers
2) Develop new revenue-generating products and services

Anything outside of that is going to get the kibbosh pretty quickly. If Line 6 just did #1, the firmware updates would be feature-bare and generally spartan. So they do #2, hence all of the cool as HX family extensions we've gotten in the last 36 months.

But that expansion adds complexity, which would normally slow updates to a crawl or piecemeal them. That's way worse. Just ask AX8 users who always saw updates for Axe-FX 2, then had to wait to see when/if it would ever drip down to their unit. I think they're still waiting on a "final" Ares update that the II got before heading off into the sunset, actually....

Helix Core is the way around that, but it takes work. Once it's done, tho....this platform should be able to add across a ton of SKUs in a....regular cadence.
 




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