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Helix 3.0?

John Mark Painter

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
8,959
Ahh ok, I didn't see that mentioned in the known issues section of the update. As long as they know about it and are working on it I am good.

How about the glitch delay octaves parameter is that one able to be reproduced?
I don’t know about the Glitch Delay.
The Tuner/Meter thing was in the last firmware too.
 

tonyhay

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
5,431
I've updated the Stomp and the Floor, all looks good, but I don't have the new Factory presets on the Floor. Probably a dumb question, but what is the easiest way to get the new factory presets without losing my own presets and IRs?

Edit: I am restarting holding down 7 and 8, etc. I think this is it. Hoping the IRs don't disappear.
 
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Lachra

Member
Messages
159
I don’t know about the Glitch Delay.
The Tuner/Meter thing was in the last firmware too.
Oh ok, I have only practicing guitar on the THR for the last few months with only minimal recording in studio with guitar & Helix. So I didn't really notice it. Been doing a lot of synth work, and mixing/mastering lately, but I am glad you brought it to my attention that it is a known issue that they are working on.
 

Holdsworthy

Member
Messages
678
I've updated the Stomp and the Floor, all looks good, but I don't have the new Factory presets on the Floor. Probably a dumb question, but what is the easiest way to get the new factory presets without losing my own presets and IRs?

Edit: I am restarting holding down 7 and 8, etc. I think this is it. Hoping the IRs don't disappear.
I believe you may have had to have backed them up first. I know I did and I had to reload mine after doing what you did. Hopefully you got away with it...
 

GenoBluzGtr

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
3,217
I take my previous post back, the Princeton preamp is darker and bassier.

This is kind of strange considering the tone-stack and the preamp component values are identical, between Princeton and Deluxe.
It's not a subtle difference either.
No idea what's going on here.

Preamp only, same 555 settings:

View attachment 321397


I do not own these amps, so I can only check the schematics and put some pink noise through the models to see how they behave.
Outside that, I can only guess.

No one knows what Line 6 does when they model the amps, and whether the old models went through the same procedure as the new models.

I also don't know where they tap the preamp only signal, could be before or after the phase inverter, or even before the 3rd gain stage. No idea.
A lot of folks here are comparing the model to the PRRI... there are some significant differences between a Vintage Princeton Reverb and the PRRI.... Most notably, that the Phase inverter (Cathodyne, vs the Long Tail Pair style in other BF models) in the PRRI is not configured the same way as in the vintage model. It shares a power supply with the preamp tubes (NOT that way in the vintage model). this took some of the lower mid-range away (or dulled it, at least). Also, the Rectifier Tube in the PRRI is different than in the original PR.... The original came with a 5U4 and the Re-issues come with a 5AR4 / GZ34. That's a good 20v difference in the plate voltage, I believe.

Also, the speakers in the PRRI are either the Alnico "Special Design" Jensen or the Italian made Jensen ceramic. Original vintage Princetons came with the Jensen C10N, I think. That could attribute a LOT of differences... not to mention which microphone you select in the Cab block. The 12" Princeton Speaker cab is a Celestion Blue, so that's going to be drastically different than a "stock" 1X10 Jensen equipped cab.

I used to have both a vintage PR and a PRRI, and they sounded quite different to my ears. I did a lot of mods to my PRRI and got it to sound "close", but it never quite had the mojo of the Vintage PR. The prices have gone so high on the vintage models that I'm kicking myself for letting mine go when I did. But I distinctly remember it having more bottom end (more low-mids, specifically) and that it took pedals MUCH better than the PRRI.
 

Ericjutsu

Member
Messages
497
I've updated the Stomp and the Floor, all looks good, but I don't have the new Factory presets on the Floor. Probably a dumb question, but what is the easiest way to get the new factory presets without losing my own presets and IRs?

Edit: I am restarting holding down 7 and 8, etc. I think this is it. Hoping the IRs don't disappear.
My IRs didn't disappear when I restored my presets to factory. Just back them up just in case though.
 

dk_ace

Member
Messages
2,002
I won’t be able to update until tonight or tomorrow, but to all those saying the Princeton is too much or too little this or that... I’ve played a lot of vintage Princetons, and no two of them have been the same, some were wildly different from one another. One of my favorite fenders. I don’t expect to use it much as I spend most of my time in Marshall land, but I’m looking forward to checking it out.

D
 

Gtrman100

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
1,805
I take my previous post back, the Princeton preamp is darker and bassier.

This is kind of strange considering the tone-stack and the preamp component values are identical, between Princeton and Deluxe.
It's not a subtle difference either.
No idea what's going on here.

Preamp only, same 555 settings:

View attachment 321397


I do not own these amps, so I can only check the schematics and put some pink noise through the models to see how they behave.
Outside that, I can only guess.

No one knows what Line 6 does when they model the amps, and whether the old models went through the same procedure as the new models.

I also don't know where they tap the preamp only signal, could be before or after the phase inverter, or even before the 3rd gain stage. No idea.
My analysis confirms your graph, I've had much experience with both amps. The output stage differences and the 10 inch speaker are responsible for differences in tone between the Princeton and Deluxe IMO. Also, the speaker modeled doesn't seem to reflect the Jensen C10 which is the best speaker (and better sounding than the Oxford or Utah) in Blackface PR's. It's a very scooped sounding- bright and bassy for a 10 inch.
 

phil_m

How did this get here? I'm not good at computer.
Gold Supporting Member
Messages
11,846
Correct. Yamaha usually has a control on the bigger roadmap, but not really on a specific effect / amp model.
Technically, I suppose Yamaha could make them go one way or another, but from what I’ve seen they really haven’t. Things that you’re seeing today were being discussed a long time go, and it wasn’t because of higher-ups at Yamaha. As long as Line 6 is successful, I don’t expect Yamaha feels it within their interest to meddle with them. Yamaha has always been pretty hands-off with its subsidiaries.

I doubt the CEO tracks that much what Line 6 is doing. At the booth, the main thing I saw happen was Eric giving him a rundown on the POD Go.
 

Alex Kenivel

Member
Messages
1,612
A ridiculous HX Native preset I built while beta testing 3.0:


I was trying to break things and tax my CPU as much as I could. Hardware Compatibility turned off.

Both paths have a hard gate and poly capo in front (-7 interval, X Stable), with stereo imagers at the end, and some Simple Delay here and there for a double-tracked feel. Path A has a Tube Screamer driving the Benizen Mega and Badonk amps, with the Field Coil and Blue Bell stock cabs respectively. Path B has the Bighorn Fuzz into the Grammatico with matching cab parallel to the US Princess with its 12" matching cab.

I switch the pitch effects off and compare toward the middle

Preset: https://www.fluidsolo.com/patchexchange/patch/108
 

Gtrman100

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
1,805
A lot of folks here are comparing the model to the PRRI... there are some significant differences between a Vintage Princeton Reverb and the PRRI.... Most notably, that the Phase inverter (Cathodyne, vs the Long Tail Pair style in other BF models) in the PRRI is not configured the same way as in the vintage model. It shares a power supply with the preamp tubes (NOT that way in the vintage model). this took some of the lower mid-range away (or dulled it, at least). Also, the Rectifier Tube in the PRRI is different than in the original PR.... The original came with a 5U4 and the Re-issues come with a 5AR4 / GZ34. That's a good 20v difference in the plate voltage, I believe.

Also, the speakers in the PRRI are either the Alnico "Special Design" Jensen or the Italian made Jensen ceramic. Original vintage Princetons came with the Jensen C10N, I think. That could attribute a LOT of differences... not to mention which microphone you select in the Cab block. The 12" Princeton Speaker cab is a Celestion Blue, so that's going to be drastically different than a "stock" 1X10 Jensen equipped cab.

I used to have both a vintage PR and a PRRI, and they sounded quite different to my ears. I did a lot of mods to my PRRI and got it to sound "close", but it never quite had the mojo of the Vintage PR. The prices have gone so high on the vintage models that I'm kicking myself for letting mine go when I did. But I distinctly remember it having more bottom end (more low-mids, specifically) and that it took pedals MUCH better than the PRRI.
My first "real" amp was a 65 Princeton Reverb, and I owned a PRRI several years ago. You are absolutely correct that the original was a warmer, fuller, spongier sounding amp than the PRRI. I ended up changing the tubes and speaker in the PRRI to try to emulate the original 65 and got close but not perfect.

That said, the model of the Princeton, with stock 10" cab, doesn't sound anything like either of them in my experience- much darker, much muddier. Using IR's and some EQ, I'm getting very good results though, and it's a nice addition the the Fender corral overall.
 

Digital Igloo

Member
Messages
4,228
does loading up a Favourites block require more DSP than just putting that same block in manually?
It shouldn't. We'll look into it.
1. First thing I noticed was the gain reduction meters were off, (sync wise) by about 2 seconds. 2. I noticed the same thing happening with the tuner. Though it was worse, it was about 3 seconds, and seem to get worse as time went on.
Try a hard reset and restore from your backup. That shouldn't happen; we would've seen pitchforks if your issues were wide.
Yamaha ripped Line 6 a new one and they will be correcting the Rat in 3.1... That was the day they put something in the water which the Line 6 boys had no choice but to drink.
Yeaaaaah... You have no clue what happens in Calabasas.
Correct. Yamaha usually has a control on the bigger roadmap, but not really on a specific effect / amp model.
YCJ has zero impact on Team Helix's roadmap, other than perhaps subconsciously giving us the confidence to take bigger risks. We propose and design products, they all get approved by the executive staff in Calabasas, budgeted by Finance, scheduled by Project Management, and then we get to work.

In fact, Helix Floor, Rack, Control, LT, and Native were all designed before any of us knew Yamaha was going to acquire Line 6. HX Effects and HX Stomp were also in the roadmap, but we didn't know what they'd look like at the time. Hell, I'm working on products now that won't see the light of day until 2026 or later; if Yamaha happens to sell Line 6 to MusicTribe in early 2026, are you gonna credit Uli B#$%&er for their success? (It's a trick question; we'd all quit and burn the building down first.)

Now there are other products that Line 6 has worked on (and is currently working on) in conjunction with YCJ, but they're all outside of Team Helix's purview. And we have occasional conversations on how to best share IP. Sometimes I'll consult on UI/UX, and was sent to Hamamatsu for the Yamaha Awards (HX Stomp lost to an über-expensive piece of Yamaha industrial gear that places ICs in iPhones, so we weren't disappointed), but that's pretty much it.
I wasnt sure how to use shuffle looper but I'm coming around to the idea that the best way is to just play something insanely simple- like a chord, and just let it do its thing.
Yeah, it's not designed to be predictable; it's designed for happy accidents. Best thing is to start with the Slices and SeqLength values at 1, 2, or maybe 4. As you increase all the parameters (except for Smoothing), things get glitchier very quickly. Personally, I always keep the SeqDrift at 100%, assign it to its own footswitch, and if a sequence sounds cool, I press the switch to effectively lock it in (SeqDrift goes to 0%).
 

ejohnson76

Member
Messages
322
YCJ has zero impact on Team Helix's roadmap, other than perhaps subconsciously giving us the confidence to take bigger risks. We propose and design products, they all get approved by the executive staff in Calabasas, budgeted by Finance, scheduled by Project Management, and then we get to work.
Ah! I didn't mean Helix specific(do this or don't, etc), what I meant roadmap is rather operational direction as seen from a parent company. I shouldn't have chose the word "roadmap". Sorry for the incorrect one! :jo
 
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Lachra

Member
Messages
159
@Digital Igloo Hey I wanted to report back
After trying it again this morning the latency with the tuner was only a few milliseconds, so basically working as it should. No where near like it was last night with almost 4 seconds latency, and growing.
I guess the unit needed to be power-cycled at least once after the update, or something similar, I didn't have to restore from back up. (but it was on a completely new preset anyway)

However, if the behavior shows up again I will report my findings.
 




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