Helix Native Plug-in

mg550

Member
Messages
1,230
The second path is open and nothing on ?
The mix of the card is set to daw or something like that ?
I don't even know what you're talking about. I don't know much about recording or DAW. I'm basically trying to get Native to sound like my Helix floor so I have the option to use it like I use my Helix.
 

Frank Ritchotte

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
6,486
Some great advise from DI in the other thread:

Know how I'm constantly spouting about how one's playback system is at least half their tone? Their input system is probably another 10-15%. Unlike some other plug-ins, Helix Native is really picky about input impedance and level, just like the gear it models. We don't build in any safety net for newbies (and we won't, because it'll make things sound worse for those who do everything right.) Apply Helix Native to a normalized—or simply input optimized—guitar track and it'll sound as if you ran a dozen boost pedals into your amp; that is, hot garbage. Yes, we're looking at additional things we can do to help push people in the right direction.
  • The input level should almost never go into the yellow. Keep it at -18dB ~ -24dB and compensate with the output slider
  • Your audio interface should have a 1M Ohm instrument level input, preferably with no volume control.This will help ensure you end up with the right input level
  • If your audio interface doesn't have a dynamic impedance circuit, several models—especially fuzzes—won't behave like the real thing. Helix and newer Universal Audio interfaces have this
  • Dynamic range is a big one too. Helix hardware's Guitar In has 123dB of dynamic range, which is much higher than the vast majority of audio interfaces
  • Latency has a MASSIVE impact on one's performance and will easily devolve "Holy crap this is amazing!" into "Holy crap this is still hot garbage." I'll commonly write additional guitar parts after already instantiating dozens of delay compensated plugins on a mix, and... boo. Using Helix hardware for processed input monitoring+dry tracking helps to no end here; at the very least see if your DAW has a low latency mode and turn it on while tracking
 

mg550

Member
Messages
1,230
Input is at -24 which keeps it out of yellow. There's no clipping anywhere. Scarlett is on instrument level and backed down well below clipping. The modeled sound is fine and my recorded tone is fine. Is it normal to hear the dry signal along with the Helix modeled sound while you're playing? When I'm direct monitoring, it sounds like I have a dry signal with the Helix modeled sound on top of it (with some latency).
 

BuleriaChk

Senior Member
Messages
1,087
Some great advise from DI in the other thread:

Know how I'm constantly spouting about how one's playback system is at least half their tone? Their input system is probably another 10-15%. Unlike some other plug-ins, Helix Native is really picky about input impedance and level, just like the gear it models. We don't build in any safety net for newbies (and we won't, because it'll make things sound worse for those who do everything right.) Apply Helix Native to a normalized—or simply input optimized—guitar track and it'll sound as if you ran a dozen boost pedals into your amp; that is, hot garbage. Yes, we're looking at additional things we can do to help push people in the right direction.
  • The input level should almost never go into the yellow. Keep it at -18dB ~ -24dB and compensate with the output slider
  • Your audio interface should have a 1M Ohm instrument level input, preferably with no volume control.This will help ensure you end up with the right input level
  • If your audio interface doesn't have a dynamic impedance circuit, several models—especially fuzzes—won't behave like the real thing. Helix and newer Universal Audio interfaces have this
  • Dynamic range is a big one too. Helix hardware's Guitar In has 123dB of dynamic range, which is much higher than the vast majority of audio interfaces
  • Latency has a MASSIVE impact on one's performance and will easily devolve "Holy crap this is amazing!" into "Holy crap this is still hot garbage." I'll commonly write additional guitar parts after already instantiating dozens of delay compensated plugins on a mix, and... boo. Using Helix hardware for processed input monitoring+dry tracking helps to no end here; at the very least see if your DAW has a low latency mode and turn it on while tracking
Excellent.

We're looking forward to the replacement of the Guitar Port and the Line 6 Pod Studio series with an interface that incorporates the Helix magic for Native .....
 

Gearzilla

Member
Messages
4,838
Input is at -24 which keeps it out of yellow. There's no clipping anywhere. Scarlett is on instrument level and backed down well below clipping. The modeled sound is fine and my recorded tone is fine. Is it normal to hear the dry signal along with the Helix modeled sound while you're playing? When I'm direct monitoring, it sounds like I have a dry signal with the Helix modeled sound on top of it (with some latency).
No. See if you can turn down/off the analog output monitoring portion from your interface— the other signal not running through Native. Seems to me that’s probably your culprit.
 

mg550

Member
Messages
1,230
No. See if you can turn down/off the analog output monitoring portion from your interface— the other signal not running through Native. Seems to me that’s probably your culprit.
That did it! Thank you! Analog Input 1 in the Output Routing was at the same level as the DAW Playback. If you have a Focusrite interface with the Focusrite Control App, you know what I mean.
 

gbtommasi

Member
Messages
417
Some great advise from DI in the other thread:

Know how I'm constantly spouting about how one's playback system is at least half their tone? Their input system is probably another 10-15%. Unlike some other plug-ins, Helix Native is really picky about input impedance and level, just like the gear it models. We don't build in any safety net for newbies (and we won't, because it'll make things sound worse for those who do everything right.) Apply Helix Native to a normalized—or simply input optimized—guitar track and it'll sound as if you ran a dozen boost pedals into your amp; that is, hot garbage. Yes, we're looking at additional things we can do to help push people in the right direction.
  • The input level should almost never go into the yellow. Keep it at -18dB ~ -24dB and compensate with the output slider
  • Your audio interface should have a 1M Ohm instrument level input, preferably with no volume control.This will help ensure you end up with the right input level
  • If your audio interface doesn't have a dynamic impedance circuit, several models—especially fuzzes—won't behave like the real thing. Helix and newer Universal Audio interfaces have this
  • Dynamic range is a big one too. Helix hardware's Guitar In has 123dB of dynamic range, which is much higher than the vast majority of audio interfaces
  • Latency has a MASSIVE impact on one's performance and will easily devolve "Holy crap this is amazing!" into "Holy crap this is still hot garbage." I'll commonly write additional guitar parts after already instantiating dozens of delay compensated plugins on a mix, and... boo. Using Helix hardware for processed input monitoring+dry tracking helps to no end here; at the very least see if your DAW has a low latency mode and turn it on while tracking
Very useful information Sir. I use an apogee duet 2 which has over 2MOhms impedance in HiZ inputs, a quite high dynamic range (114db at AD stage), and use a radial dragster to retain some load on the pickups (I guess it is similar to the load circuit at the input of my HW Helix).
Anyway, I hear no audible difference when monitoring native and hw, if input levels are correct (which took me a while). Nevertheless, the “dynamic impedance” concept you are referring to quite confuses me... I don’t really know about, could you put some light on it?
 

MIJLOVER

Member
Messages
2,490
Very useful information Sir. I use an apogee duet 2 which has over 2MOhms impedance in HiZ inputs, a quite high dynamic range (114db at AD stage), and use a radial dragster to retain some load on the pickups (I guess it is similar to the load circuit at the input of my HW Helix).
Anyway, I hear no audible difference when monitoring native and hw, if input levels are correct (which took me a while). Nevertheless, the “dynamic impedance” concept you are referring to quite confuses me... I don’t really know about, could you put some light on it?
He's referring to the Helix analog input. It can be set to auto change the impedance according to what comes first in the patch. If you run into a GE fuzz, the impedance night drop down to 10K compared to if you run straight to the amp in Helix (which is 1M). So it interacts with and loads your pickups according to whatever comes first in your patch. Native doesn't recreate that (since the first thing you run into is your interface), so the magic must happen elsewhere. Most noticable with fuzzes and particular drives. :)
 

gbtommasi

Member
Messages
417
He's referring to the Helix analog input. It can be set to auto change the impedance according to what comes first in the patch. If you run into a GE fuzz, the impedance night drop down to 10K compared to if you run straight to the amp in Helix (which is 1M). So it interacts with and loads your pickups according to whatever comes first in your patch. Native doesn't recreate that (since the first thing you run into is your interface), so the magic must happen elsewhere. Most noticable with fuzzes and particular drives. :)
Ah! Have to try this, thanks for the explanation! Guess I should read the manual? :rolleyes:
 

phil_m

Have you tried turning it off and on again?
Gold Supporting Member
Messages
12,816
Input is at -24 which keeps it out of yellow. There's no clipping anywhere. Scarlett is on instrument level and backed down well below clipping. The modeled sound is fine and my recorded tone is fine. Is it normal to hear the dry signal along with the Helix modeled sound while you're playing? When I'm direct monitoring, it sounds like I have a dry signal with the Helix modeled sound on top of it (with some latency).
If by direct monitoring, you mean monitoring the input from your interface, you’d want to turn that off. You want to turn on Active Monitoring in your DAW so your only hearing the processed signal through your DAW.
 

gtr37

Member
Messages
6,748
It would be cool if we could just get a short list of interfaces that work well with native

Like top 5 just so people have an idea
 

mg550

Member
Messages
1,230
If by direct monitoring, you mean monitoring the input from your interface, you’d want to turn that off. You want to turn on Active Monitoring in your DAW so your only hearing the processed signal through your DAW.
Sorry if I don't know all the lingo. I've never been interested in recording, so it's new to me. By default I could only hear the dry signal even though the recorded signal was the modeled Helix sound. If I checked the "monitor input" option, I could hear both. On the Focusrite Control App, when I turned down Input 1 on the Input Routing and left the DAW Playback turned up, I was only able to hear the modeled signal. I don't know if it's the proper, or only way to do it, but it worked.
 

AminorZmajor

Member
Messages
178
What about the best DI's? I don't want to change my audio interface (Focusrite Saffire DSP 24) to get Native sounding good. Simple, cheap DI should do the trick right or do I need high end DI?
 

Jose7822

Member
Messages
2,249
Sorry if I don't know all the lingo. I've never been interested in recording, so it's new to me. By default I could only hear the dry signal even though the recorded signal was the modeled Helix sound. If I checked the "monitor input" option, I could hear both. On the Focusrite Control App, when I turned down Input 1 on the Input Routing and left the DAW Playback turned up, I was only able to hear the modeled signal. I don't know if it's the proper, or only way to do it, but it worked.
You used the right lingo. It is indeed called ASIO 'Direct Monitoring'. No need to apologize :).

There should be a way for you to disable 'Direct Monitoring' from your DAW, if you don't care for it (or I should say, if you're not gonna use it). Which DAW are we talking here?
 

wvpv

Member
Messages
210
Anyone else running Native with ableton 9? When I load the plugin, I'm seeing a massive surge in CPU usage in ableton, but not in reaper, . I've checked this on both my machines (windows and mac). In reaper it uses about 4% and in ableton 20%. Anyone have any ideas why this might be?
 

Elric

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
5,024
What about the best DI's? I don't want to change my audio interface (Focusrite Saffire DSP 24) to get Native sounding good. Simple, cheap DI should do the trick right or do I need high end DI?
I've been using a Line 6 Relay G10 wireless and then send the XLR/line out to my interface. Two birds, one stone. The G10 costs a little more than a typical DI box but converts your signal to balanced line level and you get wireless on top of it. Great product.

BTW, the Focusrite Saffires have an input impedance of 1M when set to 'Inst' and have 109dB dynamic range, if your levels are good and you are not getting noise, you may not see much benefit from a DI box.
 

Steve Dallas

Member
Messages
8,317
BTW, the Focusrite Saffires have an input impedance of 1M when set to 'Inst' and have 109dB dynamic range, if your levels are good and you are not getting noise, you may not see much benefit from a DI box.
Agreed. Other than the Scarlett G1 hiccup, Focusrite builds above average instrument inputs in all of their various lines. I use the instrument input on my Scarlett G2 6i6 daily and have no complaints.
 

fazer

Member
Messages
935
I'm trying to use Helix Native with Reaper, but I can't seem to get it to work quite right. It sounds kind of like I'm getting a mix of the modeled sound along with the dry signal when monitoring. If I play back the recorded sound, it sounds fine. Any ideas?

I'm using my iMac with Reaper, Scarlett 6i6 interface and studio monitors.
Set the channel fader to minimum in your interface mixer?
 

BuleriaChk

Senior Member
Messages
1,087
Agreed. Other than the Scarlett G1 hiccup, Focusrite builds above average instrument inputs in all of their various lines. I use the instrument input on my Scarlett G2 6i6 daily and have no complaints.
What is the Scarlett G1 hiccup? Was it fixed with the new drivers?
(I own a Scarlett G1 2i2 and a G1 18i8, come to think of it...)
 

AminorZmajor

Member
Messages
178
I've been using a Line 6 Relay G10 wireless and then send the XLR/line out to my interface. Two birds, one stone. The G10 costs a little more than a typical DI box but converts your signal to balanced line level and you get wireless on top of it. Great product.

BTW, the Focusrite Saffires have an input impedance of 1M when set to 'Inst' and have 109dB dynamic range, if your levels are good and you are not getting noise, you may not see much benefit from a DI box.
Thanks for that information. I never really bothered to use the instrument in as I go direct via Spdif using my AXE-FX II. Checked it out and guess what...... sounds tons better. Nice job Line 6, Helix Native is a fantastic application. Played with it a couple hours tonight and was really enjoying what I was hearing. Another great tool for us guitarists and home recording amateurs. It's a great plugin for all kinds of stuff.
 






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