Helix Stomp as a full rig?

Discussion in 'Digital & Modeling Gear' started by jjaaam, Aug 10, 2019.

  1. John Mark Painter

    John Mark Painter Silver Supporting Member

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    It took me a while, but YES.
    I now use some cabs instead of IR.

    Plenty of IR sound like crap in the wrong combo just like the cabs do.
     
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  2. smj

    smj Member

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    I too have been able to get just about what I need from the Stomp. Once I learned to stop using it like a pedalboard and program snapshots specific to each song... it got a lot easier.

    Once I learned to use Hx edit instead of the front panel... things got even faster.

    Using an auxiliary two button Footswitch gave it more versatility.

    BUT!!!!

    We should clarify that it’s not truly 6 blocks... it’s UP to 6 blocks. There is a cpu limit... so depending on what you want in one signal chain, you might hit the cpu limit before you run out of blocks.

    Ie... things like the 63 reverb, tone sovereign, Dhyana drive, are cpu hogs.

    Loading up two amp/cab blocks in the same chain really eats into the cpu limit and there’s very little else you can add after that.

    I know there has been talk of them upping the 6 block limit. I have know idea how they would circumvent the cpu limit... unless they have arbitrarily throttled it for now.

    Now about snapshots. This is also a bit of an arbitrary decision to throttle functionality. The main reason to have snapshots is because of the slight delay if you change signal paths with different amp/fx. Get rid of the delay... you almost don’t need snapshots anymore do you????

    I get it... they want you to buy the bigger model and pay more for more. I for one would have paid more for the unit if it could do all that the full unit could do in the smaller footprint.

    Heck, if I were L6, I would just make one device... the stomp. There would be an optional docking system where you can easily attach it to the larger controller & or expression pedals. That way you could go small footprint when you need to but not be limited in functionality.... or have all the functionality of a pedalboard and not have to buy a new system.

    Heck, I think they’d sell a lot more and cut down cost by eliminating coding for the other two floor platforms.... but what do I know???

    Now, can I live with its limitations? Yes. For now....lol.

    Sean Meredith-Jones
    www.seanmeredithjones.com
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019 at 1:48 AM
  3. DeSelby

    DeSelby Member

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    The DSPs in the Helix, Helix LT and the HX Stomp are the same DSP model. The Helix and the Helix LT have a limit of 16 blocks per DSP, the HX Stomp has 6. Which to me at least makes clear that the HX Stomp 6 block limit exists solely because of a design decision that has nothing to do with a cpu limit.
     
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  4. caledoneus

    caledoneus Member

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    If you don't use much in the way of effects, then yeah, I would say it would work. I'm considering getting one at some point to have a as a backup/ "fly" rig for my LT.
     
  5. kdm1218

    kdm1218 Supporting Member

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    Another happy stock cab user, after initially using the core tone pack from OH. I value an extra block from using amp+cab more than that .02% in the mix that no one else notices.

    DSP is the same among all units. So is the coding now with the newest firmware. It’s called Helix Core but the whole point sounds like improved streamlining the platform regardless of which unit you use, or the Native plugin. All the same basic “under the hood.”

    There are also a lot more uses of snapshot mode than to change amp/fx or paths. Mine are set rhythm, lead, swell; others I’ve seen do clean, crunch, lead. Or verse, chorus, bridge. It lets you change several effects and/or parameters at once versus having to stomp multiple switches in an instant. Same reason people use big programmable switchers like PBCs and the like.
     
  6. PaisleyWookie

    PaisleyWookie Member

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    The problem I have with the Stomp is the block limitations.

    1. Amp
    2. IR
    3. Hi/Lo Cut
    4. LA Comp

    That leaves two blocks for a boost/OD, modulation, delay, and reverb. In other words, not getting away with it unless I use external pedals. Which is fine, but IMHO you have to be prepared for that possibility.
     
  7. mikah912

    mikah912 Member

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    That seems...odd to me?

    If you're using a Hi-Lo cut beyond what's already in the IR block, then don't you have the wrong IR loaded?

    Also, people really do need to give the stock cabs another chance with fresh ears and the new hi/lo cut defaults. The aforementioned Blackback 30 is a VIP for me and works in most any application with a 160 or PR30 mic applied at 2 inches. That'll save you another block.
     
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  8. dmock66

    dmock66 Member

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    ^^^ THIS

    Once I got my head around using Snapshots to adjust parameters and stopped trying to force the Stomp to have all the blocks I had in my pedalboard - the whole thing changed. Now I can do all that I want with it. The two button footswitch allows me to do everything I want/need without having to lean over to turn a dial on the Stomp (tuner, change presets between songs, etc).

    I agree with this also. I use the Interstate 2x12 cab with the 160 3-6" back for most presets - it works for me - and with the hi/low cab block cuts I really only use another EQ block to fine tune - maybe the Tilt (@jsad - replacing the "split/crossover"). What I want to carve out time for next is figuring out how to set half of the Tone Sovereign to be "neutral" (like only one side of the KoT being on) so I can use just the KoT in a preset rather than two PoT blocks to achieve one side/stacking.
     
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  9. kdm1218

    kdm1218 Supporting Member

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    I may not be understanding a real KoT, or the modeled version (haven’t checked them out yet, don’t use my Stomp for dirt currently). But if you just want one side of it on, why can you not use a single PoT for that?
     
  10. voi666

    voi666 Member

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    stomp + Harley Benton MP-100 ... works for me (or the Behringer FCB-1010 if you need expression)
     
  11. dmock66

    dmock66 Member

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    I certainly can use a single PoT - I'm just thinking thru my Stomp workflow. I've got presets on my LT that have two PoT and one KoT in front of a slightly dirty amp. Those three options are really sweet! With the Stomp I'd like to have one KoT block (rather than 3 blocks for ODs - plus the KoT is a CPU hog so I don't believe that can all happen) that I can adjust using Snapshots. Finding a "neutral" settings for one side would allow me to effectively have "either side on" as well both sides off/on.
     
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  12. PaisleyWookie

    PaisleyWookie Member

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    The HI/Lo block at the second to last to me sounds better than doing so in the IR block, because not only does it encompass the IR block, but also cuts the boominess and/or shrillness of any effect following, and it varies with each patch, even with the same IR.
     
  13. mikah912

    mikah912 Member

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    Like I said....you're choosing the wrong IRs and effect models if you must always use an additional EQ block with them.
     
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  14. jjaaam

    jjaaam Member

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    So after reading all of this, it got me thinking...

    Right now I run the M13 into an amp. One amp, with one tone. And I'm happy with that tone. And I'm happy with the tones I get with the M13 and that one amp. My issues aren't with the sounds that I'm getting from 10 year old technology - it's purely a matter of convenience in using a modeling solution as opposed to a 40W tube amp that has too much capacity for what I really need.

    So does it really make sense to get a Stomp when I most likely wouldn't use 99% of what it's capable of? I picture myself using only one amp model. From my experience, all of the nuances of different amp tones and stuff are pretty much lost on an audience. Would I know the difference? Yup. Would they? Most likely not. I mean, really...when I tweak things now and ask my band members which sounds better a lot of times I get that deer-in-the-headlights look that means they really can't notice a difference either.

    I had mentioned earlier in this thread about trying the Joyo out again. I think I may just go that route. At worst case, I get a better amp sim pedal and stay with the M13. Less cost, I like the M13 UI, and it may do exactly what I need.

    Getting a Stomp would be 'cool' and, granted, it would be nice to have the better effects and models. I just think that I'm too minimalist to take advantage of it all. Most of my patches are comp, dirt, and that's it. Some have more but not many.

    Thanks for everyone's responses though - good feedback and opinions!
     
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  15. PaisleyWookie

    PaisleyWookie Member

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    Or......they sound better with the hi/lo rolled off. I don't see why this is difficult to understand. So every IR that sounds good with the EQ block is the "wrong IR" just because I like to roll off the top? Well then I guess every IR made that I've tried (Celestion, Ownhammer, ML, etc) along with every effect in the HX Stomp is wrong, then.
     
  16. Tobin1634

    Tobin1634 Member

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    This is a fair point. I have only compared the OH and Celestions to the very similar cabs in the HX and liked them better than the HX cabs. What you are a describing is a clear advantage of using the stock cabs.
     
  17. dmock66

    dmock66 Member

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    I've used Joyo stuff and play at church with other players who use them - definitely a cool and cost effective device. In my experience, those always left me looking to add something to it (IR loader, for example) to try to get them closer to what I really wanted. The Atomic AmpliFIRE-Box may be another contender for you. Less expensive than a Stomp but provides really good amp/IR modeling. It's still more than you would use - but for half the Stomp price (less if you go used) - you get really good modeling and can do some sculpting (EQ, compression, etc) in the AFB. Not trying to spend your money - but in a box a little smaller than the Stomp you get a GREAT sounding amp modeler. And... if you decide you have a wild hair and want something different it's got 20+ amp models. You can set it to effectively be a 2 channel amp if you want - so lots of flexibility. Just a thought... not trying to muddy the waters.
     
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  18. mikah912

    mikah912 Member

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    I do understand, honest.

    I guess it seems a bit granular for me because if we're talking for live application, the skill of the FOH engineer, quality of your monitoring/FRFR and the acoustics of the venue will influence boominess and shrillness more so than slapping on yet another PEQ in the signal chain.

    If we're talking for recording, I'd rather use the DAW EQ/compression if I need to get surgical once we're at the mixing stage because I'd be using it for all tracks.
     
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  19. smj

    smj Member

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    If that delay was gone essentially we would have unlimited presets in the same tune which could function just like snapshots depending on how you programmed them. It would also alleviate the need for more blocks. I might need 10 blocks total for a tune but rarely more than 6 on at once.

    If they up the block, snapshot & dsp limit, then it achieves the same end. I imagine the latter is where it’s headed... like the bigger units? That makes my previous scenario moot.

    Sean Meredith-Jones
    www.seanmeredithjones.com
     
  20. PaisleyWookie

    PaisleyWookie Member

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    Then why have any of these EQ tools at all? I guess I don't agree with you, because I prefer to hand over what I think is the ideal tone in the box, and then go from there. Hence my desire for more blocks in the Stomp.

    I'm hardly the first one to use EQ blocks in my presets; Delaune presets are EQ'd up the wazoo, in many cases.
     

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