Helix with acoustic guitar

[kdm1218]

Curious if anyone has found any settings/blocks to work well to replicate what would be done in a studio with mic’ing of the soundhole as well as around 12th fret?

I’ve tried some 3 sigma IRs, usually use the mic tube preamp and a little room reverb and EQ as needed/appropriate, but still find it lacking/thin. So any other suggestions are welcome.

Guitar is a Taylor 312ce.

 

[vibrostrat43]

I found the 3 Sigma acoustic IRs to do a pretty good job for my mandolin imo (have some acoustic ones too, but haven't ever used with my Stomp) with a setup similar as you're referring to. The only other thing I do and would suggest would be to add in a parametric EQ and dial it in some more (the 3 Sigma IR's are on the bright end imo).

Another of the wall suggestion would be to maybe try running a parallel path with the Tube Mic pre on side, and a clean guitar amp preamp on the other (maybe like the US Deluxe). Set one side darker and one a bit brighter and mix them at the merge to find what a mix that works. I know it's not really giving the microphone sound in that way, but it might sound like a mix of direct and into an acoustic amp which may sound fuller.

 

[metropolis_4]

Mess around with the input impedance, that can be helpful.

For a while I was not happy with the acoustic sounds I was getting out of my HX Stomp compared to my AxeFX III. It didn't make sense to me because the only thing I was applying in the AxeFX was a slight EQ dip at 500Hz and 1000Hz, but in the HX Stomp I was doing all sorts of crazy EQ changes and still not getting as good a sound.

Turned out it was all about the input impedance

 

[Highgain]

Hi,

I also worked around this..pretty much with the same guitar (Taylor 214), and started with there 3 Sigmas IRs.
My ability to work out good presets seems to be limited here.

Then I downloaded the 3 Sigma Acoustic Presets "Acoustic Essentials". I find them really great! This was exactly what I was looking for!

Try them!

 

[kdm1218]

Hi,

I also worked around this..pretty much with the same guitar (Taylor 214), and started with there 3 Sigmas IRs.
My ability to work out good presets seems to be limited here.

Then I downloaded the 3 Sigma Acoustic Presets "Acoustic Essentials". I find them really great! This was exactly what I was looking for!

Try them!

I’ll check that out, thanks!

 

[kdm1218]

I found the 3 Sigma acoustic IRs to do a pretty good job for my mandolin imo (have some acoustic ones too, but haven't ever used with my Stomp) with a setup similar as you're referring to. The only other thing I do and would suggest would be to add in a parametric EQ and dial it in some more (the 3 Sigma IR's are on the bright end imo).

Another of the wall suggestion would be to maybe try running a parallel path with the Tube Mic pre on side, and a clean guitar amp preamp on the other (maybe like the US Deluxe). Set one side darker and one a bit brighter and mix them at the merge to find what a mix that works. I know it's not really giving the microphone sound in that way, but it might sound like a mix of direct and into an acoustic amp which may sound fuller.

I’d actually thought of even trying two different stock cabs with something like the US Deluxe and different mice and EQ accordingly to see where that gets me. Thanks for the thoughts!

 

[kdm1218]

Mess around with the input impedance, that can be helpful.

For a while I was not happy with the acoustic sounds I was getting out of my HX Stomp compared to my AxeFX III. It didn't make sense to me because the only thing I was applying in the AxeFX was a slight EQ dip at 500Hz and 1000Hz, but in the HX Stomp I was doing all sorts of crazy EQ changes and still not getting as good a sound.

Turned out it was all about the input impedance

Do you remember what you found to work well?

 

[Vognell]

Curious if anyone has found any settings/blocks to work well to replicate what would be done in a studio with mic’ing of the soundhole as well as around 12th fret?

I’ve tried some 3 sigma IRs, usually use the mic tube preamp and a little room reverb and EQ as needed/appropriate, but still find it lacking/thin. So any other suggestions are welcome.

Guitar is a Taylor 312ce.

In some of the other threads, I saw you reference using cabinet modeling and amp modeling. I am using some acoustic IRs, with studio preamp, reverb, delay into an FRFR speaker, and can really hardly tell the difference between the acoustic sound of the guitar, and the amplified sound (aside from the volume, naturally). None of the amp models are meant for acoustic guitar, and are going to color the sound of the guitar considerably. I think the best results will be to skip the use of cabinet and amp modeling and go direct, or into FRFR if you have it. Some EQ to cut roll off highs and lows will be needed.

 

[brucewane]

Mess around with the input impedance, that can be helpful.

For a while I was not happy with the acoustic sounds I was getting out of my HX Stomp compared to my AxeFX III. It didn't make sense to me because the only thing I was applying in the AxeFX was a slight EQ dip at 500Hz and 1000Hz, but in the HX Stomp I was doing all sorts of crazy EQ changes and still not getting as good a sound.

Turned out it was all about the input impedance

Do you remember what you found to work well?

Assuming you're using a piezo pickup - piezos perform best with higher impedance, usually 10Mohms is as high as needed, that's if you're just taking a piezo output raw. A lot of acoustics have some sort of preamp in them though, so just try some different values and see what sounds good. You're not going to break anything.

 

[-Hawk-]

In your situation, I don't know. I was dealing with the opposite. Way too much everything and I was adding eq cuts everywhere I could to avoid boominess and uncontrolled feedback. This was with a K&K Mini though. Serves me right for buying the stupid thing.

 

[FlyingsCool]

As others have noted.... 3 Sigma Acoustic IR's are great for this. On my Helix, I'll add a mic pre before the IR sometimes and an LA2A after the IR sometimes and maybe a slight delay and maybe some reverb into either my Powercab+ in flat mode or an FRFR or into the PA....

3 Sigma 45E piezo was my favorite with my old Yamaha FGX730SC, I haven't played my Martin through my Helix live yet to say what I like best there, but I'm betting I'll still like the 45E the best.

 

[kdm1218]

I should add, I’m also trying to figure out the most ideal way to record it using the Helix only versus the mics, cause I don’t have access to mics and studio space or anything at all with decent acoustics past my house even if I did own a decent condenser for one mic.

 

[sixeight]

I am in the process of checking my patches on in-ear monitors. Quite a few acoustic sounds are quite weak or sound like comb filtering using some of the free acoustic IRs on my Helix. The best result I got is using the Taylor 610 IR from 3sigma and changing the mix to 35%. After the IR I use a multiband compressor, so the low strings keep sounding good when I play softly. My guitar is a Crafter TMVS.

 

[Fireheart7]

I just spent a lot of time building my main acoustic patch. On my Stomp I go: acoustic IR, tube preamp, 10 EQ, delay, verb, LA comp.
I occasionally have to play acoustic live but mainly play electric. I like the results FWIW.
My patch is called FH7Man of Steel in custom tone. Hope this helps.

 

[Vognell]

I just spent a lot of time building my main acoustic patch. On my Stomp I go: acoustic IR, tube preamp, 10 EQ, delay, verb, LA comp.
I occasionally have to play acoustic live but mainly play electric. I like the results FWIW.
My patch is called FH7Man of Steel in custom tone. Hope this helps.

Pretty much how I'm running it. Seems like each guitar has its own quirks regarding how it needs to be EQ'd. Which type of delay and reverb to you use? I've been going back and forth on these... I'm just going for a sense of space, nothing too heavy. Just using hall and digital delay, but not 100% happy with results.

 

[Fireheart7]

Pretty much how I'm running it. Seems like each guitar has its own quirks regarding how it needs to be EQ'd. Which type of delay and reverb to you use? I've been going back and forth on these... I'm just going for a sense of space, nothing too heavy. Just using hall and digital delay, but not 100% happy with results.

True. I have tried multiple delays and landed on the multi-head (space echo) one. I never would have thought that would work. But I was not too happy with the models I would use in real life and decided to let my ears guide me. Lol.

 

[Vognell]

True. I have tried multiple delays and landed on the multi-head (space echo) one. I never would have thought that would work. But I was not too happy with the models I would use in real life and decided to let my ears guide me. Lol.

Never would have thought to try that one either. Thanks!

 

[Fireheart7]

Never would have thought to try that one either. Thanks!

I use head 3 mode. Good luck!

 

[Fireheart7]

Pretty much how I'm running it. Seems like each guitar has its own quirks regarding how it needs to be EQ'd. Which type of delay and reverb to you use? I've been going back and forth on these... I'm just going for a sense of space, nothing too heavy. Just using hall and digital delay, but not 100% happy with results.

Oh, reverb I'm using Genymeade low mod and decay but tied to my exp. pedal. Also delay wow/flutter tied to exp. as well.
And, I tried placing tube preamp first, IR 2nd. It helped tame the IR in a good way. I realized that to my ears, with the conventional order, live through PA the patch sounded too "in your face".