Help a MIDIot with H&K Grandmeister Deluxe 40

Bankston

Member
Messages
16,568
I just bought an H&K Grandmeister Deluxe 40 and I'm digging the sounds and technology. The manual says you can use any MIDI foot controller and I want to use a Voodoo Labs Ground Control Pro with it.

I have a basic understanding of MIDI but not a lot of experience.

I've got the GCP and the amp both set to MIDI Channel 1. I connected the MIDI out of the GCP with a 5-pin cable to the MIDI in on the amp.

I can't get them to talk to each other when I try to set programs/presets, and the manuals and Youtube videos aren't providing the answers.

Does anyone know of a step by step procedure to set these things up?
 

Ejay

Member
Messages
7,296
the H&K Manual problem contains a page with Control Change (CC) messages. That were you learn which CC does what.Once you know that yiu will have to program your midicontrol so it sends out the CC you want.

idnk either device...but this is what id look for first.
 

gulliver

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
13,364
I would start by making sure the GCP is reset to factory. If someone previously programmed it, it will be far from plug and play.

Usually, MIDI is fairly simple with initial setup, even if it isn't set up exactly the way you want. The commands in each pedal will need to match the commands in the amp.
 

Bankston

Member
Messages
16,568
I would start by making sure the GCP is reset to factory. If someone previously programmed it, it will be far from plug and play.

Usually, MIDI is fairly simple with initial setup, even if it isn't set up exactly the way you want. The commands in each pedal will need to match the commands in the amp.

Thank you. I did do a factory reset on the GCP. I may try doing that again.
 

Bankston

Member
Messages
16,568
the H&K Manual problem contains a page with Control Change (CC) messages. That were you learn which CC does what.Once you know that yiu will have to program your midicontrol so it sends out the CC you want.

idnk either device...but this is what id look for first.

I think this is the part I really don't understand. I haven't worked with CC messages before. My only previous experience with MIDI was using a Rocktron MIDI Raider with a G Major 2.

The G Major 2 was a PITA that kept s****ing the bed at gigs because of a badly manufactured ribbon connection. I had to send it off for a warranty repair but I never trusted it again.

But I didn't have any problems getting them to talk to each other.
 

B Money

Member
Messages
6,078
The G Major 2 was a PITA that kept s****ing the bed at gigs because of a badly manufactured ribbon connection..

I had the original G Major and it had the same problem. Spontaneous shut down at gigs is a real bummer. But I loved the sound quality so I replaced it with a Nova System. Same quality, but rock-solid durability and the convenience of being on the floor. I still use it to this day, despite being basically a dinosaur.
 

Ejay

Member
Messages
7,296
I think this is the part I really don't understand. I haven't worked with CC messages before. My only previous experience with MIDI was using a Rocktron MIDI Raider with a G Major 2.

The G Major 2 was a PITA that kept s****ing the bed at gigs because of a badly manufactured ribbon connection. I had to send it off for a warranty repair but I never trusted it again.

But I didn't have any problems getting them to talk to each other.

I checked the manual for ya.

First you need to make sure the midi channels are the same on the amp and your controller. You need the manual for that..its kinda odd to set / read on the amp...

then in short / general about controlling with midi: (which also seems to be true for your amp)

there’s programchanges (pc) and controlchanges (cc) in midiland.
Program changes are used to select presets. Ussueally PC 1...will select preset number 1.
PC are not more then a number send thru a midichannel.

CC are used to alter parameters. CC messages come with a CC number and a value (0-127)
You can look at the CC number as a subdivision of the midichannel.....where parameters at the receiving end (amp) listen. The bassknob of your amp is listening for CC21....your midknob for CC22...etcetc...that list is in the manual.
So...if you send a CC21 with value 0...the bass will be turned down all the way...value 127 will turn it all he way up.

for switches on your amp, like a boost, usually 0 is off, anything above that is on.
Your channels seem to be switched by zones, value 1 to x switched to channel 1, value x to y to channel 2. (Experiment)

Your controller can be programmed to send these messages.
So preset 1 on your controller can be set to send PC2 (set amp preset 2), and have your expression pedal send CC7 with values between 0 and 127 (controlling volume on your amp)

hope this helps...good luck...it takes some cursing and time to get stuff like this working.
 

Bankston

Member
Messages
16,568
I checked the manual for ya.

First you need to make sure the midi channels are the same on the amp and your controller. You need the manual for that..its kinda odd to set / read on the amp...

then in short / general about controlling with midi: (which also seems to be true for your amp)

there’s programchanges (pc) and controlchanges (cc) in midiland.
Program changes are used to select presets. Ussueally PC 1...will select preset number 1.
PC are not more then a number send thru a midichannel.

CC are used to alter parameters. CC messages come with a CC number and a value (0-127)
You can look at the CC number as a subdivision of the midichannel.....where parameters at the receiving end (amp) listen. The bassknob of your amp is listening for CC21....your midknob for CC22...etcetc...that list is in the manual.
So...if you send a CC21 with value 0...the bass will be turned down all the way...value 127 will turn it all he way up.

for switches on your amp, like a boost, usually 0 is off, anything above that is on.
Your channels seem to be switched by zones, value 1 to x switched to channel 1, value x to y to channel 2. (Experiment)

Your controller can be programmed to send these messages.
So preset 1 on your controller can be set to send PC2 (set amp preset 2), and have your expression pedal send CC7 with values between 0 and 127 (controlling volume on your amp)

hope this helps...good luck...it takes some cursing and time to get stuff like this working.

Thanks very much for taking the time to do that. I've read through the manuals for the H&K and the GCP several times and they explain concepts. They just don't provide detailed procedures.

Example. The amp and the GCP both show that they are set to MIDI Channel 1.

I understand how to use the store button to save a preset on the amp. What I'm not understanding is how to write a preset to program 01 on the GCP. I've tried to save a clean preset on 01 and a dirty preset on 02. But when I step on button 1 or button 2, the presents don't change. The channels don't change.

So I know I'm doing something wrong. I still don't know what that is.
 

Ejay

Member
Messages
7,296
Thanks very much for taking the time to do that. I've read through the manuals for the H&K and the GCP several times and they explain concepts. They just don't provide detailed procedures.

Example. The amp and the GCP both show that they are set to MIDI Channel 1.

I understand how to use the store button to save a preset on the amp. What I'm not understanding is to write a preset to program 01 on the GCP. I've tried to save a clean preset on 01 and a dirty preset on 02. But when I step on button 1 or button 2, the presents don't change. The channels don't change.

So I know I'm doing something wrong. I still don't know what that is.

did you look for PC values in the presets of your controller?...maybe global “send midi Pc”?
 

FbIsNotE

Member
Messages
3,815
What I'm not understanding is how to write a preset to program 01 on the GCP. I've tried to save a clean preset on 01 and a dirty preset on 02. But when I step on button 1 or button 2, the presents don't change. The channels don't change.
GCP owner here. MIDI amp too.

How does the Amp store presets? As a PC# or CC# or a combo of both?

My Mesa uses both. Channel changes are PC but controls like "Solo Boost On/ Off" are CC.

I programmed my MESA so
CH 1 = PC 1
CH 2 = PC 2
CH 3 = PC 3

The other controls like Verb on/off, Solo Boost, FX Loop etc. came with unchangeable CC# that were identified in the manual.

The key concept to get is that the GCP is Retriever only. It will only go get what you tell it. If you tell it to go get PC# 1 and there is no PC# 1 it's going to bring back nothing. Basically, presets aren't stored in the GCP, they are stored in the amp. The GCP just has directions to get to the presets... or not.
 

FbIsNotE

Member
Messages
3,815
I just bought an H&K Grandmeister Deluxe 40 and I'm digging the sounds and technology. The manual says you can use any MIDI foot controller and I want to use a Voodoo Labs Ground Control Pro with it.

I have a basic understanding of MIDI but not a lot of experience.

I've got the GCP and the amp both set to MIDI Channel 1. I connected the MIDI out of the GCP with a 5-pin cable to the MIDI in on the amp.

I can't get them to talk to each other when I try to set programs/presets, and the manuals and Youtube videos aren't providing the answers.

Does anyone know of a step by step procedure to set these things up?

Also, check out the GCP manual section on "Start number". Some gear starts counting at 0, others at 1. This is EXTREMELY CONFUSING AND FRUSTRATING IMHO and a big reason i love the GCP. You can tell it how each different piece of gear counts.

If the amp starts counting from 0 and you send it it a 1, you'll get channel two. Only the tech world could make 1=2:p
 

FbIsNotE

Member
Messages
3,815
I just bought an H&K Grandmeister Deluxe 40 and I'm digging the sounds and technology. The manual says you can use any MIDI foot controller and I want to use a Voodoo Labs Ground Control Pro with it.

I have a basic understanding of MIDI but not a lot of experience.

I've got the GCP and the amp both set to MIDI Channel 1. I connected the MIDI out of the GCP with a 5-pin cable to the MIDI in on the amp.

I can't get them to talk to each other when I try to set programs/presets, and the manuals and Youtube videos aren't providing the answers.

Does anyone know of a step by step procedure to set these things up?
I just cruised the H&K manual for the Grandmeister Deluxe 40. Uh, yeah. Reads like a Boss manual. That's not a compliment.

Near as I can tell, the amp uses PC# for all amp Presets and CC# for individual parameter control within a preset. Same as my Mesa and pretty much industry standard. What is extremely vague is how the factory presets are set up. Very confusing IMHO.

If it was me, I would create a preset in the amp that responds to something like PC #11. Make the preset with all parameters set very low. Bass, mid, treble, gain etc. so when that preset is engaged it's very obvious. Successfully retrieve that preset and you should lock into the process.

What mode are you using GCP in?

To send PC #11 in GCP factory reset mode you would press the "Bank" buttons until "1" is displayed, then you would press the "1" foot switch (in the 0-9 group of FS). The GCP display should show

11.INIT

That means it is currently sending PC #11.
 
Last edited:

Bankston

Member
Messages
16,568
Okay, I really am MIDIot. I got home, started over from scratch, focused on changing channels on the amp and now it's working.

Thanks for the replies!
 

FbIsNotE

Member
Messages
3,815
Okay, I really am MIDIot. I got home, started over from scratch, focused on changing channels on the amp and now it's working.

Thanks for the replies!
Sweet! Glad it's working.

The best advice I can give is, write everything down as you do it! I usually just keep a scrap notebook handy to jot down what I THINK will work as I actually set things up. Inevitebly it doesn't work or I think of a cleaner way to do things. Once i've got everything working smoothly, only then do i commit it to the "Gear" book.

That finalized "Gear" book has saved my bacon numerous times. Sure, I remember it now. Maybe even for a few weeks or months but what about 3 years from now? Once you start down that MIDI hole things can get crazy fast. It's a great kind of crazy, but without good notes it can be frustrating.
 




Trending Topics

Top Bottom