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Help for a MIDI moron

exodus

Member
Messages
1,826
On pedals with MIDI connections, what is the real world application for it? (read the title, I really don't know anything about MIDI and have never used it).

For example, I'm looking to buy the Ventris Dual Reverb. It has MIDI jacks. What is the practical application wherein someone would want and use these MIDI jacks?
 

c7sus

Member
Messages
1,283
Program changes, parameter changes, etc via a MIDI controller rather than physically twisting knobs on the pedal. Syncing the delay time to MIDI clock (if the pedal recognizes MIDI clock and the controller creates or syncs to clock). You set up patches in the controller and save them as presets.
 

exodus

Member
Messages
1,826
Program changes, parameter changes, etc via a MIDI controller rather that physically twisting knobs on the pedal. Syncing the delay time to MIDI clock (if the pedal recognizes MIDI clock). You set up patches in the controller and save them as presets.
So, when I see videos of pros on stage with just a big foot button controller and all their pedals off to the side in a rack, that is where this whole thing is employed?
 

Flip362

Member
Messages
725
The Ventris can support 128 On board presets using midi versus just 8 using only the Ventris itself. Imagine pressing one button and going from a simple hall reverb to a dual engine reverse and edome ambient preset. With another press of a button you go back to the simple Hall preset. That is what would be considered a program change. It is the simplest and easiest MIdI assignment to program and the most frequently used.

Continuous control or CC is controlling a parameter. Maybe you want to adjust the reverb mix or length on the fly. Perhaps bounce back and forth between 2 settings with an expression pedal. You can do that too. Usually anything is midi mapable especially on Source Audio pedals. You can get a lot from the face of the pedal, but when using a midi controller? You can do just about anything!

Edit: you can also send instructions to 16 individual devices (or more). 16 available midi channels so that if you have multiple devices, it is sort of like an ID. I only want to do something with the Ventris? Send this data on channel 1 only. Send something else at the same time to a different pedal? Easy. Using channels you can send multiple instructions to different devices using the same expression pedal or switches!
 

Black_Label

Member
Messages
4,524
On pedals with MIDI connections, what is the real world application for it? (read the title, I really don't know anything about MIDI and have never used it).

For example, I'm looking to buy the Ventris Dual Reverb. It has MIDI jacks. What is the practical application wherein someone would want and use these MIDI jacks?
MIDI allows you to change a preset (via a program change message) within the pedal so you can recall different settings on the fly.

MIDI also allows you to change any parameter on the fly (if the pedal is set up for that) so you can, for instance, use an expression pedal or another pedal to turn one of the knobs for you (via a continuous control message).

MIDI is 40 years old and pretty basic but can still do a whole lot.
 

rumbletone

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
6,728
I use midi in guitar rigs for changing presets (hit one button and all devices change) and for real time control of parameters - for example, expression control of LFO, levels, delay time, w/d mix, etc
 

c7sus

Member
Messages
1,283
So, when I see videos of pros on stage with just a big foot button controller and all their pedals off to the side in a rack, that is where this whole thing is employed?
Yes. And some controllers are kinda hybrids that can re-arrange the order of your non-MIDI pedals via programmable loops and control your MIDI-enabled pedals too. Switching possibilities are pretty intense these days.

Check out the Boss MIDI loop control pedals. A lot of power in a small package. That kind of programmability used to cost thousands from vendors like CAE.
 

nnnnnn

Member
Messages
1,142
So, when I see videos of pros on stage with just a big foot button controller and all their pedals off to the side in a rack, that is where this whole thing is employed?
That's one possible use. But a lot of guitarists use MIDI even though they have all pedals on a single board at their feet on stage.

Let's say your board includes the Ventris reverb you mentioned, and some other programmable effects with MIDI jacks such as a Boss DD-500 delay, a Strymon Mobius modulation pedal, and a Source Audio EQ. Connect the pedals with MIDI and you can make it so a single press of one footswitch tells all four of those devices to change preset or turn on or off. Saves you from tap dancing all over your board to turn them on/off one by one.

Notice also in my example I used pedals from four different companies - the MIDI standard is deliberately designed to allow products from different manufacturers to communicate with each other in a standard way, so you the consumer are free to mix and match rather than being locked into all Boss or all Ventris or whatever.
 

LaughinBones

Member
Messages
506
Thought I'd recycle this thread, as I am indeed a midiot.

Here's my question: I have a Volante receiving MIDI messages from a Morningstar MC6 with a 5 pin cable; can I use a 5-pin-to-TRS cable (Volante MIDI output) to add a Meris Polymoon to the mix? That way I could control both with the Morningstar, without having to buy some sort of MIDI junction box?

Thanks for your help in advance!
 

sigmundc

Member
Messages
212
Thought I'd recycle this thread, as I am indeed a midiot.

Here's my question: I have a Volante receiving MIDI messages from a Morningstar MC6 with a 5 pin cable; can I use a 5-pin-to-TRS cable (Volante MIDI output) to add a Meris Polymoon to the mix? That way I could control both with the Morningstar, without having to buy some sort of MIDI junction box?

Thanks for your help in advance!
Not that I’ve tried this exact setup, but it certainly should work. I’d imagine you’ll have to ensure that the “midi thru” option is activated on the Volante, and I know you will have to ensure the global expression jack mode on the Polymoon is set to midi (as opposed to expression pedal or preset switch).

Also, you’ll likely need to set Volante and Polymoon to two separate midi channels. That way you can send messages intended for each individually—it’s like having two separate lines of communication.
 

LaughinBones

Member
Messages
506
Not that I’ve tried this exact setup, but it certainly should work. I’d imagine you’ll have to ensure that the “midi thru” option is activated on the Volante, and I know you will have to ensure the global expression jack mode on the Polymoon is set to midi (as opposed to expression pedal or preset switch).

Also, you’ll likely need to set Volante and Polymoon to two separate midi channels. That way you can send messages intended for each individually—it’s like having two separate lines of communication.
Exactly, thanks for the info!

Another idea is getting the MusicomLab Parallelizer, and having the loop bypass switch of the Polymoon trigger a preset bank change on the Morningstar. In other words, once you hit the Polymoon channel of the Parallelizer, the options on the Morningstar change. Does that make sense, and is it possible? The next question would be, how would all those things connect...

I appreciate the help. This MIDI thing is intimidating at first, but once you get going you immediately begin to imagine new possibilities!
 

Screwball

Member
Messages
375
MIDI allows you to change a preset (via a program change message) within the pedal so you can recall different settings on the fly.

MIDI also allows you to change any parameter on the fly (if the pedal is set up for that) so you can, for instance, use an expression pedal or another pedal to turn one of the knobs for you (via a continuous control message).

MIDI is 40 years old and pretty basic but can still do a whole lot.
I have to ask, what are you referring to as being basic? Is there something else that is more advanced? Or are you comparing to industrial networking?

I also know next to nothing about MIDI but I’m trying to get my toes wet

Edit: didn’t realize this thread is old haha
 

LaughinBones

Member
Messages
506
With an Morningstar, is it possible for an action of one switch to toggle a different switch to a different toggle position?
 

LaughinBones

Member
Messages
506
Exactly, thanks for the info!

Another idea is getting the MusicomLab Parallelizer, and having the loop bypass switch of the Polymoon trigger a preset bank change on the Morningstar. In other words, once you hit the Polymoon channel of the Parallelizer, the options on the Morningstar change. Does that make sense, and is it possible? The next question would be, how would all those things connect...

I appreciate the help. This MIDI thing is intimidating at first, but once you get going you immediately begin to imagine new possibilities!
With an Morningstar, is it possible for an action of one switch to toggle a different switch to a different toggle position?
Any Sunday MIDI folk want to take a crack at this?
 

Black_Label

Member
Messages
4,524
I have to ask, what are you referring to as being basic? Is there something else that is more advanced? Or are you comparing to industrial networking?

I also know next to nothing about MIDI but I’m trying to get my toes wet

Edit: didn’t realize this thread is old haha
MIDI is basic in the sense in that it can’t do that much - it’s really just clock syncing, sending program changes and sending control change messages. For 1980, that was pretty revolutionary to have a Roland synth clock synced to a Prophet V and telling it to change presets. For 2020, we’re used to having our devices communicate with multithreaded information through usb, Thunderbolt, Bluetooth, etc and making multiple complicated operations with an easy to use interface. The new MIDI 2.0 spec that’s just been agreed upon is a much more robust and modern spec. I’m not fully versed in everything it can do but I’m pretty sure that it’s backwards compatible which means it’ll still be limited to what can be achieved through a 5-pin cable.
 

LaughinBones

Member
Messages
506
Hello again, MIDI gurus!

Using basic MIDI with my Morningstar 6 mkii controlling a Strymon Volante and Meris Polymoon has been great fun. (Morningstar > Ventris > Polymoon)

Now I need the Polymoon to send MIDI so I can set up presets through the computer (kind of like how I use computer software for my Morningstar through USB). So I'm thinking I need an interface, maybe something like this:

Separate 5pin send and receive for the Morningstar, separate 5pin send and receive for the Volante, and either a single 5pin or single TRS send+receive multi jack for the Polymoon.

This way everything is connected, and I can use USB from the Morningstar to connect it and the Polymoon to the computer.

Does this make any sense? Where would I find one?

Thanks for the help!
 

LaughinBones

Member
Messages
506
Hello again, MIDI gurus!

Using basic MIDI with my Morningstar 6 mkii controlling a Strymon Volante and Meris Polymoon has been great fun. (Morningstar > Ventris > Polymoon)

Now I need the Polymoon to send MIDI so I can set up presets through the computer (kind of like how I use computer software for my Morningstar through USB). So I'm thinking I need an interface, maybe something like this:

Separate 5pin send and receive for the Morningstar, separate 5pin send and receive for the Volante, and either a single 5pin or single TRS send+receive multi jack for the Polymoon.

This way everything is connected, and I can use USB from the Morningstar to connect it and the Polymoon to the computer.

Does this make any sense? Where would I find one?

Thanks for the help!
Any MIDI experts want to take a crack at this?
 

sigmundc

Member
Messages
212
Hello again, MIDI gurus!

Using basic MIDI with my Morningstar 6 mkii controlling a Strymon Volante and Meris Polymoon has been great fun. (Morningstar > Ventris > Polymoon)

Now I need the Polymoon to send MIDI so I can set up presets through the computer (kind of like how I use computer software for my Morningstar through USB). So I'm thinking I need an interface, maybe something like this:

Separate 5pin send and receive for the Morningstar, separate 5pin send and receive for the Volante, and either a single 5pin or single TRS send+receive multi jack for the Polymoon.

This way everything is connected, and I can use USB from the Morningstar to connect it and the Polymoon to the computer.

Does this make any sense? Where would I find one?

Thanks for the help!
I'll have a go at this--although I haven't actually done it, mind you... and
I'm afraid you'll need a Meris midi i/o ("sold separately", as the saying goes), and you may also need a wireless midi adapter like the Yamaha Wireless MD-BT01.

Once in possession of said hardware you can do what Terry Burton does at 3:33 in this video:
EDIT: Terry actually hooks up the wireless midi adapter earlier in the video, at about 2:05, and doesn't go into detail about the device. The basic point is that the Meris pedals WILL DO midi out, which means you can do 2-way communication with a PC or even, as he shows in the video, an app on your tablet or smart phone. You'll have to research it some more, but at least SOME of what you want to do is possible.
 
Last edited:

LaughinBones

Member
Messages
506
I'll have a go at this--although I haven't actually done it, mind you... and
I'm afraid you'll need a Meris midi i/o ("sold separately", as the saying goes), and you may also need a wireless midi adapter like the Yamaha Wireless MD-BT01.

Once in possession of said hardware you can do what Terry Burton does at 3:33 in this video:
EDIT: Terry actually hooks up the wireless midi adapter earlier in the video, at about 2:05, and doesn't go into detail about the device. The basic point is that the Meris pedals WILL DO midi out, which means you can do 2-way communication with a PC or even, as he shows in the video, an app on your tablet or smart phone. You'll have to research it some more, but at least SOME of what you want to do is possible.
Thanks for this! I think that might work if I got a TRS split to dual MIDI (one IN, one Out) 'y cable' for the Volante, right?
 

sigmundc

Member
Messages
212
Thanks for this! I think that might work if I got a TRS split to dual MIDI (one IN, one Out) 'y cable' for the Volante, right?
Maybe. I just don’t have any experience using midi with Volante... what you’re describing sounds like it should work. But, assuming you get the cabling set up—and assuming the Meris midi I/o and Yamaha Bluetooth adaptor work as well with Volante as with Meris—you’ll also need some software on your Mac, pc or tablet that allows you to work with presets and the midi controllable parameters on the Volante... and a quick search on the web didn’t show me anything encouraging .... there’s a guy here, Elliot G., who built a great editor that’ll work for your Polymoon, and we need analogous software for Volante.
 




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