Help me out...I play lead on one string way too much. Double stop education?

Holliman

Triad Abuser
Messages
2,344
Is double stops the right approach to use if I'm playing on one string way too much? I just don't know enough theory to sync different notes together confidently and have them sound complimentary to each other and the song. Some of the player's style who do this the best are David Grissom, Jeff Beck, Andy Timmons, and of course Hendrix.

Is there anybody that can help me quit using one string at a time during lead runs? I use major and minor triad voicings to expand on chords, maybe triads are the way? I just don't know where to start.

Thanks!
 

trisonic

Member
Messages
13,156
Dunno, really but that's the difference between EC in The Yardbirds and EC in the Bluesbreakers (OK, but it's a lot of it - he certainly did a lot of woodshedding). Take a listen to the Beano album for ideas.

Best, Pete.
 

dlguitar64

Member
Messages
5,630
i would practice the c major scale(c d ef g a bc) in 3rds(c-e,d-f,e-g,etc) and 6ths(e-c,f-d,g-e,etc) first.then 4ths(g-c,a-d,b-e,etc) and 5ths(c-g,d-a,e-b,etc)and finally for some dissonance(which can be the sweetest thing to use sometimes),2nds(b-c,c-d,d-e,etc) and 7ths(c-b,d-c,e-d,etc).i voiced the interval sets to all sound like c major scales and thus appropiate for progressions such as C F G,A minor G F,Dminor G7,etc.
 

Holliman

Triad Abuser
Messages
2,344
i would practice the c major scale(c d ef g a bc) in 3rds(c-e,d-f,e-g,etc) and 6ths(e-c,f-d,g-e,etc) first.then 4ths(g-c,a-d,b-e,etc) and 5ths(c-g,d-a,e-b,etc)and finally for some dissonance(which can be the sweetest thing to use sometimes),2nds(b-c,c-d,d-e,etc) and 7ths(c-b,d-c,e-d,etc).i voiced the interval sets to all sound like c major scales and thus appropiate for progressions such as C F G,A minor G F,Dminor G7,etc.
Great thanks!
 

stevel

Member
Messages
14,614
Is double stops the right approach to use if I'm playing on one string way too much? I just don't know enough theory to sync different notes together confidently and have them sound complimentary to each other and the song. Some of the player's style who do this the best are David Grissom, Jeff Beck, Andy Timmons, and of course Hendrix.

Is there anybody that can help me quit using one string at a time during lead runs? I use major and minor triad voicings to expand on chords, maybe triads are the way? I just don't know where to start.

Thanks!
The obvious solution is to force yourself to play in one position. You play at the 5th position which means your first finger plays any notes, on any strings on the 5th fret, your middle finger plays notes on the 6th fret, your ring the 7th, and pinky the 8th (for example, obviously you play in the position necessary for the song).

And that's it.

A word of caution though - many people are in the opposite boat you're in - they can't get out of "the box" of playing in one position - they need to do what you're doing :)

So realize, there's nothing wrong with playing a solo on one string, or largely one string - the Edge's solo from U2's "Sunday Bloody Sunday" shows how effective the use of a largely single string (though he uses some open string drones as well) solo can be. Also the break in Rush's solos from "YYZ" and the opening to Iron Maiden's "Wasted Years" have effective single string elements (though they do incorporate the open string as a feature). And then there's the grand-daddy of all single string playing - "Miserlou" by Dick Dale (you've heard it).

The first thing I'd do is use "the box" - limit yourself to one position.

But the second thing I'd do is take one of those single string solos (one you can memorize parts to) and learn them not only on other strings, but using adjacent strings. For example:

---5---10---8---10--- on the first string could be played:


--------10---8---10---
---10------------------

--------10--------10--
---10--------13-------

-----------------------
---10--15---13---13--

on any combination of the first and 2nd strings.

"double stops" aren't going to really help you - in a sense what you may end up doing is playing "two string solos" as players who play double-stops very often stay on a pair of strings as they move dyad shapes around.

The third thing you should REALLY do is learn all your notes, and where they are on the neck - on every string.

Best,
Steve
 

Holliman

Triad Abuser
Messages
2,344
The obvious solution is to force yourself to play in one position. You play at the 5th position which means your first finger plays any notes, on any strings on the 5th fret, your middle finger plays notes on the 6th fret, your ring the 7th, and pinky the 8th (for example, obviously you play in the position necessary for the song).

And that's it.

A word of caution though - many people are in the opposite boat you're in - they can't get out of "the box" of playing in one position - they need to do what you're doing :)

So realize, there's nothing wrong with playing a solo on one string, or largely one string - the Edge's solo from U2's "Sunday Bloody Sunday" shows how effective the use of a largely single string (though he uses some open string drones as well) solo can be. Also the break in Rush's solos from "YYZ" and the opening to Iron Maiden's "Wasted Years" have effective single string elements (though they do incorporate the open string as a feature). And then there's the grand-daddy of all single string playing - "Miserlou" by Dick Dale (you've heard it).

The first thing I'd do is use "the box" - limit yourself to one position.

But the second thing I'd do is take one of those single string solos (one you can memorize parts to) and learn them not only on other strings, but using adjacent strings. For example:

---5---10---8---10--- on the first string could be played:


--------10---8---10---
---10------------------

--------10--------10--
---10--------13-------

-----------------------
---10--15---13---13--

on any combination of the first and 2nd strings.

"double stops" aren't going to really help you - in a sense what you may end up doing is playing "two string solos" as players who play double-stops very often stay on a pair of strings as they move dyad shapes around.

The third thing you should REALLY do is learn all your notes, and where they are on the neck - on every string.

Best,
Steve
Very cool. Thanks!
 

bigdaddy

Member
Messages
6,485
mix in some chord hits. Start out with a call and response type deal. Think Buddy Guy's 'Mary Had a Little Lamb'.
 

KhKhKh

Member
Messages
32
Is double stops the right approach to use if I'm playing on one string way too much? I just don't know enough theory to sync different notes together confidently and have them sound complimentary to each other and the song. Some of the player's style who do this the best are David Grissom, Jeff Beck, Andy Timmons, and of course Hendrix.

Is there anybody that can help me quit using one string at a time during lead runs? I use major and minor triad voicings to expand on chords, maybe triads are the way? I just don't know where to start.

Thanks!
There was a lesson on Hendrix style double stops / chord solo on www.learningguitarnow.com quite some time back. Quite good
 

bobmc

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
2,504
BTW, Grissom did a cool little book/CD on blues rock that covers a great deal of territory. I got mine used for $8.

And, CAGED (yes I mean CAGED) got me out of the single string thing. I'm an idiot so YMMV.
 

Ooogie

Member
Messages
485
Practice playing some harmonized runs and you can throw those into progressions pretty easily using hybrid picking or fingers. Here's an example of what I'm talking about...

-----------------------------
-1--3--5--6--8--10--12--13--
------------------------------
-2--3--5--7--9--10--12--14--
------------------------------
------------------------------

Basically, you're walking up the C Major scale on the 2nd string and harmonizing the 3rd on the 4ths string. Here's another example on the 3rd and 2nd strings, you can play around with this on any string set.

----------------------------------
--5--6--8--10--12--13--15--17---
--5--7--9--10--12--14--16--17---
----------------------------------
----------------------------------
----------------------------------

Mark
 

Holliman

Triad Abuser
Messages
2,344
Practice playing some harmonized runs and you can throw those into progressions pretty easily using hybrid picking or fingers. Here's an example of what I'm talking about...

-----------------------------
-1--3--5--6--8--10--12--13--
------------------------------
-2--3--5--7--9--10--12--14--
------------------------------
------------------------------

Basically, you're walking up the C Major scale on the 2nd string and harmonizing the 3rd on the 4ths string. Here's another example on the 3rd and 2nd strings, you can play around with this on any string set.

----------------------------------
--5--6--8--10--12--13--15--17---
--5--7--9--10--12--14--16--17---
----------------------------------
----------------------------------
----------------------------------

Mark
Thanks!
 

Holliman

Triad Abuser
Messages
2,344
BTW, Grissom did a cool little book/CD on blues rock that covers a great deal of territory. I got mine used for $8.

And, CAGED (yes I mean CAGED) got me out of the single string thing. I'm an idiot so YMMV.
I'll have to check that Grissom book out. I've strayed away from CAGED, because of the "un-proper" rap that it gets. Maybe I should finally see what it's all about.
 

rob2001

Member
Messages
16,938
OK, i'm outing myself as a self-taught player who is not up on terms...what is a double stop? Examples in rock music? Thanks, Rob
 

dewey decibel

Member
Messages
10,482
OK, i'm outing myself as a self-taught player who is not up on terms...what is a double stop? Examples in rock music? Thanks, Rob

S'ok, I'm self taught too. It's two notes played at the same time. Intro to Soul Man by Sam and Dave (which is harmonised 6ths btw).


1)
2)10-12---12-12-10-10-10
3)
4)10-12---12-12-10-10-10
5)
6)

1)10-10-10----12-----14
2)
3)10-10-10----12-----14
4)
5)
6)

There are lots of different approaches, but when I use double stops they're usually based off chord shapes (as I think is the same as the other players you've mentioned). Take a basic barre chord, here's D at the 5th fret:

1)5
2)7
3)7
4)7
5)5
6)

Just isolate parts of that shape and play around with it.

1)
2)8-7-----7
3)7-7--7--7
4)----h9
5)
6)

1)
2)
3)-----7-7-7
4)7-7-7h9-7
5)7h9
6)


1)
2)7-----8-7-----10---10-12-10-8-7
3)7-----7-7-----11---11-11-11-7-7
4)
5)
6)

So on that last one I slid up to another D barre chord:

1)10
2)10
3)11
4)12
5)12
6)10

And played around with that, then slid back down. Now you can do these things all in the same position (and it's valuable to learn) but I think it sounds better when you use different positions. It's one of the things that just sounds inherently good on the guitar.
 




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