Help Nailing Space Echo Sound (Wata content)

ummohyeah

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1,847

Takeshi also plays guitar on this track (Greg is playing bass) but I do believe the delayed guitar part is Wata. She famously uses the RE-201. Her rig has also consisted of an SiB Echo unit but I do not believe she was that when they recorded this (2006), nor the RE-501 she's sometimes pictured using with her RE-201 units.

Obviously, a Space Echo unit itself would be the closest... But I'm about to dive into a world of delay pedals of the tape variety and I want to get as close as I can on the first try. None of the delay pedals I have will get me there (Meet Maude, AD4096, DM-2, AD9, DE7, Stereo Memory Man, Echo Puss, Replica, Echorec). Outside of the Replica and Echorec I have not had a dedicated "tape delay pedal," so I need to know what to look for in an effort to save me time/money flipping stuff trying to get a particular feel.

My question is, out of the myriad of tape delay pedals, which to your ears do you think fits the bill based on the first bit of guitar in that track? I'm not exactly looking for the most faithful reproduction of an RE-201, but more of which pedal can get this particular vibe quite easily.

This is not a question of what you think is best, but rather what you think gives the warmth and light flutter in Wata's tone on this track. Notice the late tape modulation on the first few chords struck.

Skreddy Echo?
Boss RE-20?
Strymon El Capistan?
Catalinbread Belle Epoch?
Empress Tape Delay?

Thanks in advance. I've been listening to demos on all of these for a week but I can't hear anything demonstrated that is played like that or set to sound like that.
 

hazmat33

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934
I'm a huge Boris/Wata fan (lucky enough to see them 3X in the states) and my Boss re-20 hits those tones convincingly.


Recently a friend of mine was with me and I put Boris on (Heavy Rocks, I think)...it was actually his first time hearing them. Halfway thru my buddy remarked that Wata's tone sounded like my tone. It was a heavily delayed part. I told him it was the re-20 that did it. I also use a BAT Pharoah and Black Forest.

I've tried to replace it a few times over the last 10 years but all others have come & gone. The only other delay pedal I've kept it the Seymour Duncan Vapor Trail...but it's not as close to those tones as the re-20.

The only other pedal on your list that I've owned is the Belle Epoch. It didn't beat out the re-20 so off it went.

These are just my experiences
 

65ChampAmp

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310
I don't have the ears to tell for sure, but to my untrained ears, it just sounds like a delay set to about 5 or 6 repeats with maybe a little modulation into a cranked up reverb. Maybe on a cathedral setting.
Not much help, I know.
 

ummohyeah

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1,847
I'm a huge Boris/Wata fan (lucky enough to see them 3X in the states) and my Boss re-20 hits those tones convincingly.


Recently a friend of mine was with me and I put Boris on (Heavy Rocks, I think)...it was actually his first time hearing them. Halfway thru my buddy remarked that Wata's tone sounded like my tone. It was a heavily delayed part. I told him it was the re-20 that did it. I also use a BAT Pharoah and Black Forest.

I've tried to replace it a few times over the last 10 years but all others have come & gone. The only other delay pedal I've kept it the Seymour Duncan Vapor Trail...but it's not as close to those tones as the re-20.

The only other pedal on your list that I've owned is the Belle Epoch. It didn't beat out the re-20 so off it went.

These are just my experiences
Thanks for the reply. I've never seen Boris (or Sunn O))) for that matter) but might drive to Flagstaff, AZ to see them on May 2nd. We'll see.

The RE-20 has always interested me. I've read a lot of comments saying that people experience serious "tone suck" with it however. Can you comment on that by any chance?
 

hazmat33

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934
There may be some "tone suck" but the only time I notice any is when I bypass my board completely...and even then it's slight. Some people don't like the input volume knob. I just set it a smidge past where the lights stays on when playing. I actually like using that knob for low volume jamming at home.
 

ummohyeah

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1,847
There may be some "tone suck" but the only time I notice any is when I bypass my board completely...and even then it's slight. Some people don't like the input volume knob. I just set it a smidge past where the lights stays on when playing. I actually like using that knob for low volume jamming at home.
Thanks again for the quick reply. I might take a punt on an RE-20, looks like they can be had used for $180-$215 USD, not bad really.

And once again I have to agree, Wata's tone really is great, if your friend is comparing your tone to that likeness, that's something indeed. Obviously I'm not trying to cop her tone (I do love the Space Echo on Feedbacker and on this album Altar), but I'm lucky enough to have sourced a Wren and Cuff White Elk, which was a reverse engineered Elk Inc Super Fuzz Sustainar (same thing was MASF Wata Fuzz essentially). They only made 100 and sold them exclusively in Japan... I have to say, it's the most crushing fuzz pedal I've ever had. I don't know if I will ever part with it.
 

Black_Label

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4,563
Have you considered a DD-500? It's basically a DD-20 on steroids with a dedicated Space Echo setting that can be tweaked like crazy to get the delay to sound like what you hear.

And, yeah, the White Elk is crushing. Great pedal.
 

handtrix

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2,353
nice tune... went well after two of my micro-brews.:beer

yeah, get it used...
Not too many echo's degenerate in that fashion. Your options might be limited. Analog does meet your criteria, but there are some very good options in digital-to-analog converter types.
 

ummohyeah

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1,847
Just get it.
You know one day I will... I just pulled the trigger on the EarthQuaker Devices Disaster Transport Sr, though. It's a bit more pedalboard friendly and having the dual-delay feature (trails, series/parallel as well) is what sold me. I guess we'll see how it holds up though, the one thing about the RE-20 (and the Skreddy) is that it can create those repeats that go on forever without running away and getting uncontrollable.

Have you considered a DD-500? It's basically a DD-20 on steroids with a dedicated Space Echo setting that can be tweaked like crazy to get the delay to sound like what you hear.

And, yeah, the White Elk is crushing. Great pedal.
I have looked at the DD-500 considerably, it's an amazing pedal, especially considering you run two delays in series/parallel (eat that, Strymon), and at about $265 used it's definitely tempting. I like that the third footswitch can be changed to be a special feature rather than just tap tempo...

I saw you had the White Elk for sale a few days ago, hopefully you can find a buyer who will appreciate it for what it is. Most interestingly voiced Muff I've had to date.
 

Thedude99

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2,374
Get the El Cap to nail those sounds, not the RE-20.

I owned an RE-201 for many years, and what the sound in that song is is a Space Echo in less than pristine condition. The tape is worn, you can hear the splice point and the wow and flutter. It sounds a lot like my Space Echo did.

The el Cap can nail that. It gives you the control to make it sound like a pristine new tape echo or a worn out old one in need of some TLC. The RE-20 can't.

As far as tone suck. The RE-201 sucks your tone, and the RE-20 is a replica of the RE-201 - warts and all.
 

tatoi

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252
Nice to see some talk about Boris on TGP:)
I've had the RE-20 in the past, and like all Boss pedals, it does change your tone a bit. Another drawback is that it can get noisy when daisy-chained.
That being said, I think it's the best Space Echo simulator out there. I kinda miss having one.
 

hazmat33

Member
Messages
934
Nyabinghi? Dearly missed. Emissions...good times.

Yep, I didn't live too far from there. Made it to every day of every Emissions. Saw a ****-ton of great bands there. Played there a few times as well.

I'm gonna end my night a little early, smoke a bowl and chill to Boris' FLOOD

cheers!
 

ummohyeah

Member
Messages
1,847
Get the El Cap to nail those sounds, not the RE-20.
Thanks for the advice. The El Capistan does sound wonderful. And it's definitely more aerodynamic than the RE-20, that's for sure. That's always a bonus.

Nice to see some talk about Boris on TGP:)
They're better than just about every band in history including The Beatles and I'll stand on Paul McCartney's coffee table and say that out loud in nothing but my underwear.

I'm gonna end my night a little early, smoke a bowl and chill to Boris' FLOOD
Put Feedbacker in the middle of that and end it properly with Dronevil.
 




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