Help sorting out Zildjian budget lines !?!

mc5nrg

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
9,990
Need Help sorting out the many varieties of starter/budget Zilldjian cymbals-ZBT, ZHT, ZXT, Planet Z, Scimitar etc? Particularly interested in 14" hihats to be an alternative to Sabian B8.
 
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DrumBob

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
17,639
Agreed. Don't buy Zildjian budget stuff. You gets what you pays for; crap of the worst kind. I have never heard a good budget Zildjian cymbal. Ever. I have heard decent sounding Paiste budget cymbals, however. In the end, budget cymbals are for kids starting out.

You can always find high quality used Zildjian, Sabian, Paiste and other types of cymbals. They abound on craigslist, Reverb and Ebay, and most drum shops have used ones, as was mentioned. Check GC's used offerings.

You can always make a low end drumset sound acceptable by installing good heads and tuning them correctly, but you can't do a thing to make a lousy cymbal sound good.
 

MatrixClaw

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
126
Yep. All the Zildjian budget lines are bad. You can get a full set of A Customs on the used market for the cost of a set of their cheap cymbals.
 

mc5nrg

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
9,990
Ok, near as I can tell with somewhat tedious internet digging, the ZHT series is B12 alloy rather than B8. While the "all economojo Zildjian sound bad" may be quite correct advice, it doesn't help differentiate between the numerous possibilities. Not a pro drummer. just looking for alternatives to the 13" Sabian B8 hihats I already have. Thanks, though.
 
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Messages
27
The very first Zildjian budget line was called Amir, and while every other cymbal in the line sounded cheap and cheezy, the 14" hats for some odd reason sounded great! I've been using them since the 80's alongside my A Zildjian ride and crashes. Note: this does NOT apply to the Amir II series which were bad all around yuck.
 

slayerbear17

Member
Messages
3,195
I have a ZXT Zildjian 20 inch Ride I am very fond of. For a cheap cymbal I love the bell and the attack on it. Stay away from the ( if buying used ) ZXT Titanium series. I had a 16 which started cracking, I was able to grind it back to a 15 inch.

I love my 14 inch Zildjian Z hihats, some people hate em, seem to have a reputation of sounding like I beams however that's not the case with my setup. Cuts thru the mix and a bit darker sounding.


Stay away from the Paiste PST line if the price looks attractive.
 

DrumBob

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
17,639
You think you need help, just think how Zildjian feels!

If you're in Canada, their budget line is called "Sabian", and they're average Hand-Hammered cymbal is more genuinely crafted than Zildjian's most expensive K Constantinople.
What? Sorry to say, you are absolutely wrong.

Sabian is not Zildjian's "budget line" in any way, shape, or form. Sabian is a separate company that Robert Zildjian formed in the late 1970's when he split with the Massachusetts-based Zildjian Company. I knew Bob Zildjian. I sat with him in a restaurant in Meductic, New Brunswick, Canada, and he said, "They threw me out of the family." He told me the whole story about how Sabian came to be.

The Zildjian family has had a long history of disputes and arguments. This was no different.

Sabian is a name created after Bob and his wife Willie's three kids: Sally, Billy and Andy: SA-BI-AN. It sounds Turkish/Armenian.

The Zildjian company owned a cymbal factory in Meductic where they produced Azco budget cymbals for years. When the Zildjian brothers split, Bob got the Canadian factory, but was not permitted to produce cymbals until 1980. They achieved almost instant success and Sabian has become the number two ranking cymbal company in the world, and deservedly so. They make great cymbals, both hand-hammered and machine-hammered and budget. I have toured the factory extensively. I have toured the Quincy-based Zildjian factory. There's no comparison. Sabian wins hands down, IMO, insofar as overall quality and consistency, and they are also a lot more innovative than Zildjian.

Sabian and Zildjian have absolutely nothing to do with each other. They are competitors.

I suggest you get your facts straight before you post. ;)
 
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DGAS

Member
Messages
256
What? Sorry to say, you are absolutely wrong.

Sabian is not Zildjian's "budget line" in any way, shape, or form. Sabian is a separate company that Robert Zildjian formed in the late 1970's when he split with the Massachusetts-based Zildjian Company. I knew Bob Zildjian. I sat with him in a restaurant in Meductic, New Brunswick, Canada, and he said, "They threw me out of the family." He told me the whole story about how Sabian came to be.

The Zildjian family has had a long history of disputes and arguments. This was no different.

Sabian is a name created after Bob and his wife Willie's three kids: Sally, Billy and Andy: SA-BI-AN. It sounds Turkish/Armenian.

The Zildjian company owned a cymbal factory in Meductic where they produced Azco budget cymbals for years. When the Zildjian brothers split, Bob got the Canadian factory, but was not permitted to produce cymbals until 1980. They achieved almost instant success and Sabian has become the number two ranking cymbal company in the world, and deservedly so. The make great cymbals, both hand-hammered and machine-hammered. I have toured the factory extensively. I have toured the Quincy-based Zildjian factory. There's no comparison. Sabian wins hands down, IMO, insofar as overall quality, and they are also a lot more innovative than Zildjian.

Sabian and Zildjian have absolutely nothing to do with each other. They are competitors.

I suggest you get your facts straight before you post.
I'm not completely certain, but I think he was kidding...:dunno
 

DrumBob

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
17,639
I'm not completely certain, but I think he was kidding...:dunno
Perhaps, but there's no way to tell, because he didn't use a winky eye or any other emoji. You can't ascertain the tone of someone's voice on a forum. :)
 

DGAS

Member
Messages
256
Perhaps, but there's no way to tell, because he didn't use a winky eye or any other emoji. You can't ascertain the tone of someone's voice on a forum. :)
well, I thought the exclamation point and the quotes around "Sabian" were the tells, but as I said, I'm not completely sure.

My guess is that it's the dry Canadian sense of humor--let's call it "Canada Dry"--in action. :rotflmao
 

Hugh Manitee

Member
Messages
202
@DrumBob, ;)

I was not suggesting Sabian cymblas are inferior (rather, the opposite, as far as quality of craftsmanship goes these days IMO). I was also referring at the same time to how much less they cost up here than state-side.

Here's a good interview:

 

Hugh Manitee

Member
Messages
202
Returning to the main subject, I personally don't like the budget/entry-level cymbal concept overall.

The copper, tin, and trace silver used in budget cymbals are the same that go into the finest Zildjian Kerope or Constantinople. These materials are highly labour-intensive and environmentally damaging to extract from the earth. As a collector and aspiring cymbalsmith, I feel we should honor nature every time we make a cymbal, by doing the best work we know how.

In the old days, there were no "budget lines"; beginners and pros alike generally used the finest K. Istanbuls, regardless of what developmental stage they were at. I see no reason why a beginner can't grow into appreciating a fine cymbal if used from the get-go.

Plus, perhaps if they increased the supply of nicer cymbals, the prices would go down ;)
 

DrumBob

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
17,639
@DrumBob, ;)

I was not suggesting Sabian cymblas are inferior (rather, the opposite, as far as quality of craftsmanship goes these days IMO). I was also referring at the same time to how much less they cost up here than state-side.

Here's a good interview:

What you said was, Sabian is Zildjian's budget line, which is incorrect.

"If you're in Canada, their budget line is called "Sabian."
 
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Hugh Manitee

Member
Messages
202
That I did, and yes it's obviously incorrect. I was using their historical relatedness for the sake of a quip.

I've got nothing against either company - as Roberto said, "all cymbals are beautiful" - although my preference is currently Sabian, for aesthetic reasons.
 

wraub

Member
Messages
67
I had some of the older ZHT cumbals when I started out, got a great deal at a pawn shop.
They were okay to start with, but I quickly realized their sonic qualities were lacking, and I traded them on.
I found them less pleasant the more I learned about cymbals and started listening to other makes.


Currently using a Zildjian A crash and splash, a 60's Zildjian ride, and Quick Beat hats.
 

DrumBob

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
17,639
I had some of the older ZHT cumbals when I started out, got a great deal at a pawn shop.
They were okay to start with, but I quickly realized their sonic qualities were lacking, and I traded them on.
I found them less pleasant the more I learned about cymbals and started listening to other makes.


Currently using a Zildjian A crash and splash, a 60's Zildjian ride, and Quick Beat hats.
Budget cymbals are are what they are. You gets what you pays for, in most cases; junk. I always tell people, buy used high quality cymbals instead and leave the budget stuff for kids starting out.
 
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RippedJeans

Member
Messages
31
I like Meinl HCS 14 inch hi hats. They cost about USA $ 40 used.

I like the Zildjian ZBT 16 inch crash cymbal also. They cost about USA $ 30 used.

Cymbals are such a personal choice, there are so many to choose from, and they all sound different.
 




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