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Help with Custom Audio Dual Line/Mixer +

Discussion in 'The Rack Space' started by Chamai, Dec 21, 2017.

  1. italo de angelis

    italo de angelis Member

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    There are many choices...
    Mogami, Canare, Klotz, Gotham, Belden....
     
  2. italo de angelis

    italo de angelis Member

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  3. Chamai

    Chamai Member

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    i am debating if i should have one giant 18 space rack or split my rack into 2. i am rocking a 8 space rack i would hate to put it to waste. i may use the 8u for pedals, voodoo gcx, tuner, 2 drawers for pedals, power conditione.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
  4. looper309

    looper309 Member

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    @italo de angelis - Thanks for the suggestion of Mogami W2944. Question: What do you do with the extra lead wire?
    [​IMG]
     
  5. italo de angelis

    italo de angelis Member

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    I cut the needed length from a bulk. Keep the bulk. In time you may need more cables, longer or shorter... there is no end to this madness.
     
  6. looper309

    looper309 Member

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    No, I meant in addition to the ground, there are three thin wires instead of two like on the Mogami W2549. Looks like ground, hot and two colds.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
  7. italo de angelis

    italo de angelis Member

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    ground, cold, hot... the other should just be the shield around the 3 wires. Don't use it, just trim it nicely.
     
  8. TheDentist

    TheDentist Member

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    Two leads are insulated (in red and clear plastic) the third is a so called drain wire.
    You use it as a shield contact, easier to work with instead of the twisted/braided shield.
    As Italo said you trim the shield flush with the outer insulation and solder the drain wire to earth pin inside the plug. Easy as cake!
     
    looper309 likes this.
  9. looper309

    looper309 Member

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    Okay, that seems a little different than with unbalanced and the Mogami W2549 cables, where you unbraid the shield and use it as the ground.
    So with the 2944, the thin 'drain' wire is the one you solder to ground. The pic isn't that clear, but okay that's a bare wire there. Actually that looks to be a lot easier than with a fat ground wire. -- Hmm, maybe I already should have been "thinning out" the ground to make a 'drain' wire on the other cables.
    The thinner outer diameter might warrant a little shrink tubing for strain relief, depending... I hope to use this wire for trs and xlr.
    I'll pick up a few feet from Markertek and give it a go. Thanks guys.
     
  10. italo de angelis

    italo de angelis Member

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    That's the reason why THIS cable is better than any MIC grade cable. Shield doesn't carry anything... so no interference!
    Don't thin out the internal wires.
     
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  11. Anje

    Anje Supporting Member

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    Italo, I understand the easier soldering advantage of this model of cable thanks to the thinner grounding wire available in addition to the main bigger outer shield, but aren't the 2 in contact in the cable? It doesn't look to me that the 2 are isolated from each-other, so the outer shields will also carry any signal going to ground (if ground/shield is connected at both ends of the cable).
     
  12. italo de angelis

    italo de angelis Member

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    I use the Belden brand cables because I *much* prefer the shield made with a thin aluminum foil than a thick bare free copper wrap as in the picture.
    Yes... the ground AND the shield are bare and in contact with each other, but the point is that you make fully balanced cables with this wire (studio wiring is all balanced). So there won't be any audio signal going thru the ground as in unbalanced wiring, since hot and cold run on covered wires. You don't have to worry when the cable is made for full balanced wiring. When you need to unbalance one side... that's where you get more noise anyway, no matter the fact ground and shield are in physical contact.
    The other reason I *much* prefer the Belden is because it's thinner than the Mogami as the aluminum foil is really thin.
     
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  13. Anje

    Anje Supporting Member

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    Ok Understand, if you're talking about the audio signal only in fully balanced condition then yes, the shield is not supposed the carry any "signal".

    If we want to be picky and start talking more in general, especially about potential RF/EMC and other "noise" that the shield is made for protecting your audio signal from, then the shield can become an electrical signal conductor if both ends are connected and some may argue that it can lead to some kind of high frequency cap coupling to the main audio signal/wires; reason why you can read in some manuals to only connect the shield at one end of the cable (the one end depending on the specific source/destination devices), especially in some sensible environments.
     
  14. italo de angelis

    italo de angelis Member

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    If we really wanted to be picky... we would not even use unbalanced gear. The whole gtr thing is just so crappy designed...
    But yes, you are correct. One may use a covered wire for ground only and not in contact with the shield. But it's hardly possible you get that kind of noise to worry about... unless you have a gig at the NASA and some heavy magnetic **** may be "in the air".
    In many years I really had no major noise issues in gigging locations, from the worst small bar to a theater. But I moved to balanced gear long ago. I hardly use unbalanced devices.
     
  15. Anje

    Anje Supporting Member

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    Yes, no real issue for me either using balanced connections with the shield being connected to ground at both sides.
    That just made me think of the general wiring guidelines I recall reading in some good old analog console manuals.
     
  16. looper309

    looper309 Member

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    This is what Markertek sent when I ordered Mogami W2944. It doesn't match the pic on their page (same as the Mogami page), above. Red, white, and ground is what they sent. No clear. This doesn't seem right. Will contact them in the morn.
    The inner wires are so small, it passed right through my stripper tool. Had to use a blade. And so skinny. Two or three layers of shrink would be needed to secure it against the barrel.
    At this point, the W2549 would be much easier to work with. Recognitizing here. Would I lose so much spec-wise by going with the 2549? I know I'd get the work done faster.
    The red and white on this so-called 2944 had the soft white cotton-like stuff around it. Very tedious to separate it from the copper to trim it back. Is this the right cable?
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018
  17. italo de angelis

    italo de angelis Member

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    You can use that BUT if there is no shielding foil or loose copper... that is a mic grade cable.
    Male sure i's the right one.
    Doesn't the external rubber show the product codes?
     
  18. looper309

    looper309 Member

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    No, it's plain on the outside, but I checked the pics at Performance Audio and all the (color) of Mogami 2944 have no printing on them.
    Markertek swears up and down they sent me the correct cable, but are refunding my money and letting me keep this, whatever it is.
    So here I am in limbo when I could be building cables.
    I could try again and order the Mogami from Performance, but I would very much like your recommendation for a Belden console cable, Italo. Is is 9451?
    Thanks.
     
  19. italo de angelis

    italo de angelis Member

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    My choice is THE classic 8451. Been a masterpiece since the '70s in most major studios. Countless records made on it!
    Mine have been working perfectly for over 20 yrs now. I hear the 9451 is the same cable only better to handle as it was physically improved.
    I just love Belden tone... balanced, great highs but not shrill... full bodied overall response, no noise. Cheap like mad. Get it.
     
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  20. looper309

    looper309 Member

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    Just ordered some orange, blue and gray 9451 from Pacific Radio in Burbank. They had the best selection. $0.37 per foot, less than half the Mogami price. What's a few days more to a geezer like me, to get the best stuff. New experiences are important.
    My only concern is, with how thin the cable is, I'm thinking some shrink will be in order for a snug fit on the barrel.
    Thanks!
    https://www.pacrad.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=Belden+9451#3
     

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