Help with DI recording and speaker sims???

euler1970

Member
Messages
240
Hello,

When I play through my setup using an actual amp speaker, I am very happy with the results I am getting sound-wise. No complaints, whatsoever. However, when I go directly into my audio interface with my setup, the sound is horrific. Even when I add speaker sims such as Redwirez it sounds bad.

Can someone please explain to me the reason(s) for the huge disparity in sound between the two setups: using a real speaker vs. using a simulated speaker? Is actual 'air' a factor???

Setup 1: EVH Wolfgang (w/ EVH Frankenstein bridge pickup) => Tech 21 GT2 pedal => solid state amp (Marshall 15 watt clean channel)

Setup 2: EVH Wolfgang (w/ EVH Frankenstein bridge pickup) => Tech 21 GT2 pedal => audio interface => Logic X (w/ Redwirez speaker sims)

pedal_zpsgntl0m7t.jpg


http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/sansamp/gt2.html

Thanks.
 

moshuajusic

Member
Messages
47
2 reasons. The GT2 has built-in amp/cab sim that can't be bypassed. And the GT2 on its own sounds like **** (my opinion).

You could send it to Putnam Guitars and they can mod it so you can bypass the cab sim. (http://www.putnamguitars.com/mods.htm) That might help. But I would much more strongly recommend a different preamp or record direct and use plugins. Or both! It's always a good idea to record a direct signal. I like the Toontrack and Brainworx stuff.
 

euler1970

Member
Messages
240
2 reasons. The GT2 has built-in amp/cab sim that can't be bypassed. And the GT2 on its own sounds like **** (my opinion).

You could send it to Putnam Guitars and they can mod it so you can bypass the cab sim. (http://www.putnamguitars.com/mods.htm) That might help. But I would much more strongly recommend a different preamp or record direct and use plugins. Or both! It's always a good idea to record a direct signal. I like the Toontrack and Brainworx stuff.

Thanks for your opinion, but, why would I would I get the cab sim bypassed with a mod if I like the sound of the pedal on it's own?
 

moshuajusic

Member
Messages
47
He doesn't just bypass the cab sim. He gives you a switch or a knob for it. So you can have it on, i.e. stock, when you play live, and turn it off or dial it down to record. He's modded a couple Tech21 things for me. He's solid.

I thought you said it sounds horrific on its own? Direct through the interface to the computer would be on its own. Through a Marshal's clean channel would not be on its own. (Through an amp's effects return would be closer to on its own.)
 

euler1970

Member
Messages
240
Thanks for clearing that up. I think I understand what you are saying now.

So, if using the pedal direct through the interface to the computer is the pedal on it's own, then I agree with you...it sounds like ####. No argument there. But, when I use the pedal through the Marshall amp clean channel with the pedal engaged, I think the pedal sounds fantastic. No kidding.

Thanks.
 

moshuajusic

Member
Messages
47
Since you like it thru your amp's clean channel, maybe the first thing you should do is try it through a few plugin amp clean channels.
 

JCM 800

Member
Messages
6,614
You are missing the amp. That alone has a big impact on your sound. In your case you are using the pedal as more of an overdrive in front of an amp, going direct you are only using a speaker sim and no amp sim. That is a big difference.
 

euler1970

Member
Messages
240
You are missing the amp. That alone has a big impact on your sound. In your case you are using the pedal as more of an overdrive in front of an amp, going direct you are only using a speaker sim and no amp sim. That is a big difference.

The sales tech at Sweetwater told me the pedal was basically an 'amp in a box'. In other words, the amp was incorporated into the pedal. This is not correct? The sales tech told me this after I purchased the pedal from Sweetwater, not before.
 

euler1970

Member
Messages
240
Since you like it thru your amp's clean channel, maybe the first thing you should do is try it through a few plugin amp clean channels.

Thanks. Will give it a shot! I like S-Gear the best so will try the pedal with that first.

By the way, I've tried Brainworx's amp sims. I didn't care for them too much. Not bad but not great either. I thought Toontrack just made drum samples (i.e. EZ Drummer, Superior Drummer)? Will look into it further.
 

electricity17

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
963
This may or may not make a difference, but I have one quick mixing suggestion. Try creating a send to a reverb plugin on an "ambience" setting. This will help give the sound some dimension without sounding like the stereotypical reverb sound. I use Valhalla Room for this, other reverb plugins should have something comparable. I use this on mic'd guitar amps and DI'd bass tracks, always gives them more of a sense of being in an actual space.

There's plenty of other reasons this setup might not be working for you (as mentioned above), but give it a try and see what you think.
 

euler1970

Member
Messages
240
This may or may not make a difference, but I have one quick mixing suggestion. Try creating a send to a reverb plugin on an "ambience" setting. This will help give the sound some dimension without sounding like the stereotypical reverb sound. I use Valhalla Room for this, other reverb plugins should have something comparable. I use this on mic'd guitar amps and DI'd bass tracks, always gives them more of a sense of being in an actual space.

There's plenty of other reasons this setup might not be working for you (as mentioned above), but give it a try and see what you think.

Cool. Definitely worth a try. Just out of curiosity, which setting (preset) are you using for Valhalla Room? I own Valhalla Room as well...the Valhalla reverbs are excellent. Sean Costello definitely knows what he is doing with his Valhalla reverb plugins.

Thanks.
 

JCM 800

Member
Messages
6,614
The sales tech at Sweetwater told me the pedal was basically an 'amp in a box'. In other words, the amp was incorporated into the pedal. This is not correct? The sales tech told me this after I purchased the pedal from Sweetwater, not before.

SansAmps are amp in a box type devices. How good they are at it is debatable. When you run it through your amp you now have the amp imparting it's own character to the sound. Even if you are using a clean channel set to what you think is "flat" the amp is still coloring the sound.

You are using the pedal in two different ways and it is completely normal that it would sound different.
 

euler1970

Member
Messages
240
SansAmps are amp in a box type devices. How good they are at it is debatable. When you run it through your amp you now have the amp imparting it's own character to the sound. Even if you are using a clean channel set to what you think is "flat" the amp is still coloring the sound.

You are using the pedal in two different ways and it is completely normal that it would sound different.

Makes sense. Thanks for the explanation. But, this Marshall 15 watt solid state amp I am using with the pedal is honestly a POS. I think I payed a hundred bucks for the amp. Hard to believe this amp could make that much of a difference just having the GT2 pedal going through it, but, I guess it does.
 

Multicellular

Member
Messages
8,313
Makes sense. Thanks for the explanation. But, this Marshall 15 watt solid state amp I am using with the pedal is honestly a POS. I think I payed a hundred bucks for the amp. Hard to believe this amp could make that much of a difference just having the GT2 pedal going through it, but, I guess it does.

Regardless of the quality of the amp, it is boosting frequency ranges and probably adding some saturation.
 

euler1970

Member
Messages
240
Makes sense. Thanks for the explanation. But, this Marshall 15 watt solid state amp I am using with the pedal is honestly a POS. I think I payed a hundred bucks for the amp. Hard to believe this amp could make that much of a difference just having the GT2 pedal going through it, but, I guess it does.

I see. Thanks.

Just curious how much of a factor 'air' plays? I mean, the interaction between the speaker, the air in the room, and one's ears?
 

electricity17

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
963
Cool. Definitely worth a try. Just out of curiosity, which setting (preset) are you using for Valhalla Room? I own Valhalla Room as well...the Valhalla reverbs are excellent. Sean Costello definitely knows what he is doing with his Valhalla reverb plugins.

Thanks.

I'm using the basic Ambience presets, usually either the medium or large ambience. I'm assuming you know how to set up a reverb on a send, if not I can explain it

You've mentioned "air" a couple times in here, and this may be something that gives you the feeling of the guitar being in a room or space. I do it on close mic'd guitar cabs, so I find it's useful no matter how you're recording.

If you want a more traditional reverb, then set up another reverb on a different send with a plate or hall setting (you can use Valhalla Room for this) and send a little bit to that as well. It's easy to overdo it, but I've used both on some tracks, maybe for a solo or lead part.
 

euler1970

Member
Messages
240
I'm using the basic Ambience presets, usually either the medium or large ambience. I'm assuming you know how to set up a reverb on a send, if not I can explain it

You've mentioned "air" a couple times in here, and this may be something that gives you the feeling of the guitar being in a room or space. I do it on close mic'd guitar cabs, so I find it's useful no matter how you're recording.

If you want a more traditional reverb, then set up another reverb on a different send with a plate or hall setting (you can use Valhalla Room for this) and send a little bit to that as well. It's easy to overdo it, but I've used both on some tracks, maybe for a solo or lead part.

Cool. Setting up sends in Logic is fairly easy so I'll definitely try that. Thanks.
 

euler1970

Member
Messages
240
Just curious...since I am happy with the sound I am getting using the GT2 pedal through my solid state 15 watt amp, what if I tried micing the amp? I wouldn't be able to crank the amp really loud for recording because I live in an apartment complex. Just curious what suggestions anyone has for the type of (least expensive) microphone I could use? I have one of those Blue Snowball USB microphones but I'm thinking I would need a microphone that's a little bit better than a USB mic to get a reasonably good recording. Any suggestions?

Thanks.
 

JCM 800

Member
Messages
6,614
Just curious...since I am happy with the sound I am getting using the GT2 pedal through my solid state 15 watt amp, what if I tried micing the amp? I wouldn't be able to crank the amp really loud for recording because I live in an apartment complex. Just curious what suggestions anyone has for the type of (least expensive) microphone I could use? I have one of those Blue Snowball USB microphones but I'm thinking I would need a microphone that's a little bit better than a USB mic to get a reasonably good recording. Any suggestions?

Thanks.

SM-57. A classic, industry standard and not very expensive.
 

euler1970

Member
Messages
240
Great. Thank you. Does the amp have to be cranked volume-wise for recording with a microphone such as the SM-57?
 




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