Help with Visual Sound buffer placement

Discussion in 'Effects, Pedals, Strings & Things' started by DonaldDemon, Feb 22, 2012.

  1. DonaldDemon

    DonaldDemon Member

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    I just got the new Visual Sound Pure Tone buffer but I am kind of unsure where to put it. I tried a buffer before (PT-Pro; 12-14 pedals) but it didn’t make a difference. Now I have a true-bypass 6-loop strip set up and I notice more loss from all the cable runs + TB pedals. I know the buffer first would be helpful but it would ruin my fuzzes dynamics. Here is the chain:

    Wilson wah (w/ fuzz buffer) --> EB 6166 volume --> Loop strip in --> LOOP 1 – Detox EQ --> LOOP 2 – Mojo Vibe --> LOOP 3 – HBE UFO (Ge fuzz) --> LOOP 4 – Ge Rangemaster clone --> LOOP 5 – Boss PH-1r Phaser --> LOOP 6 – Timmy --> loop strip out --> AM Bi-chorus --> Korg PB Tuner --> Splawn Pro Mod amp

    Where should I start?

    Pic for reference:
    http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w220/donalddemon/Pedalboards/P1020511-1.jpg
     
  2. DonaldDemon

    DonaldDemon Member

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  3. Chandyland

    Chandyland Member

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    Buffers are most effective if you plug the guitar straight into them. The further down in the chain you put it, the less effective it will be.

    The only exception one should really make to this rule would be for fuzzes that don't play well with buffers.
     
  4. KevinFinn

    KevinFinn Member

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    Stick any fuzz or wah before it. Otherwise, it goes first.
     
  5. DonaldDemon

    DonaldDemon Member

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    So really because the fuzzes are the 4th & 5th pedal in the chain the buffer will need to be 6th...which is basically at the end on the front of amp chain. I think this is the problem I had last time where having a buffer added no real benefit to the sound.
     
  6. jb4674

    jb4674 Member

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    Not to take the thread off topic but, how do you like that detox eq? Are you able to do the same thing Paul does in the regard of taking a dirt sound and engaging the detox to turn the same effect into an almost clean sound?

    Nice collection of pedals btw:

    [​IMG]
     
  7. DonaldDemon

    DonaldDemon Member

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    Thanks. The Detox EQ is great. It does exactly what it’s supposed to, which is clean up a dirty amp in one click. With my amp (Splawn) it won’t get totally clean but my amp is voiced pretty aggressively. I have used a regular eq in the past for this but this works much better, allowing you to dial back in frequencies that are lost when cutting volume dramatically. It's my hypothetical clean sound in one stomp.
     
  8. RockStarNick

    RockStarNick Supporting Member

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    Hey Don,

    Hmm. Yeah, your setup is a bit tricky, because there's two "rules" conflicting one another here:
    • a buffer should be closest to 1st in line
    • a buffer should be placed after fuzzes

    And you have SO much stuff even before the fuzzes. Also, I've played with those EB Volume pedals before, and man, without a buffer in front, I just feel that they really cut a ton of high end. I feel like your setup, while well thought out, isn't really buffer friendly, if that makes any sense.

    IS there any way to get your loop strip modded, so that there could be send/return jacks between the 4th and 5th loops? That you would run the signal out to the Puretone, and back in?

    That's the only solution I can come up with here. but you're right - placing a buffer at the end isn't going to do much for you, at all. You're probably losing quite a bit of signal before it even hits the buffer.
     
  9. DonaldDemon

    DonaldDemon Member

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    Hey Nick, thanks for the thoughts! I think you may be correct in that my set up is just not buffer friendly, though I hear some people put them at the end of the chain with some success. I guess either at the end or after the fuzzes is most likely the only places I can put one unless I rethink my whole set up….which I already just did! I’m loving the set up as is and not up for rearranging just for some slight signal loss.

    As for the volume, it shaves a little high end off but my amp is pretty bright and bitey (Splawn) so it kind of works out. I don’t think there is any room for modding on the loop strip, it seems pretty tight. Really the buffer can only go after the loop strip or at the very end.

    I took the board home last night to work on it this weekend. I guess I will try sticking it at the end and seeing if it does help at all. Maybe I will try it fornt of the fuzzes for the hell of it to see if it affects them.
     
  10. RockStarNick

    RockStarNick Supporting Member

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    I guess for the time being, put the buffer in PLACE of the phaser. So you can click it on/off to hear a difference.

    The decide if it's worth it.

    I know for me, I have:
    • 20 foot cable to board
    • buffer
    • an entirely true bypass board.
    • 20 foot cable out to amp

    I did experiments, and clicked the buffer in/out, and man, it's just completely night and day. My tone is complete mud without it. But,I don't run any buffer-phobic fuzzes
     
  11. DonaldDemon

    DonaldDemon Member

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    Great idea about putting it in the phaser slot of the looper. I did the experiment tonight.

    It sound best right where you suggested, after the fuzz in the phaser slot. A noticeable difference in high end presence, less round sound and more bite.

    Strangely, at the end of the chain after the tuner it makes almost no discernible difference. I used a Boss LS-2 to A/B it.

    Putting it in front of the fuzzes wasn't quite as bad as I thought but I still prefer them unbuffered. It just seemed to add too much of everything to the fuzzes.

    Final placement: exactly after the looper out before the chorus, Timmy and tuner. It brings a little life back w/o being too invasive. I have to say overall, not a huge difference. I still don't understand why it did nothing after the tuner!
     
  12. walterw

    walterw Gold Supporting Member

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    because by that point the damage was done! once the signal is lost, a buffer won't magically re-create it.

    that buffer needs to be in front of your volume pedal, which is likely the primary source of the loss. it would also be good for it to be before all that looping and switching, so as to preserve signal through all those contacts.

    can't the fuzzes go way up front, so that the buffer can be right after them but before everything else, so it can actually do its job of presenting an output that won't be choked by subsequent stuff?
     
  13. DonaldDemon

    DonaldDemon Member

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    I tried it in front of the volume pedal as well and honestly it didn't make much difference then right after it. In fact, I didn't notice any difference at all.

    I can't change the setup at this point, plus I like having everything right where it is with fuzzes on the loop switch and volume pedal for swells.

    I know a lot of people complain about signal loss with the EB volume but since I had them replace the string & spring I think it sounds just fine.
     
  14. justnick

    justnick Gold Supporting Member

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    A few thoughts...See if this is helpful...



    Bottom line though is, if you are good with your tone why add anything?
     
  15. DonaldDemon

    DonaldDemon Member

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    So I am bumping this for a new dilemma. I had the buffer placed directly after the bypass looper, which wasn’t as beneficial but no other way to do it with this set up. I removed the wah and put an EV5 expression pedal in its place which controls the WET mix. Problem with that is the wah was my input point. Now the EB Volume is first in the chain but I can’t get to the input jack. So what I did was move the buffer to first in the chain and use that as an input point….but now my Rangemaster & HBE fuzz don’t sound right and are overloading/squealing!

    So…should I just buy a pedalboard patcher to stick there or is there any chance of a buffer that won’t completely muck the fuzzes? I am trying to do this the easy way out b/c I don’t want to have to recut the damn ELC cables (PITA!) and just need a convenient place to plug in.
     
  16. stinkfoot

    stinkfoot Member

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    I'm not surprised - the LS-2 itself is buffered, so using it to A/B the Pure Tone won't reveal any difference.

    How about moving the volume pedal where the wah was, and place the EV-5 where the VP was? I will mean you have to recut a cable or two, but that's just about inevitable...
     
  17. DonaldDemon

    DonaldDemon Member

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    True, I didn't think of the LS-2 buffer! Yeah I guess I could go that route. I just hate messing with those damn solderless ELC cables, it takes me hours to get them to work correctly.

    Or...I was thinking I can just mount one of these redco TRS jacks somewhere on the board, which requires drilling into the PT.

    [​IMG]
     

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