here we go again... what was #1 reason for Beatles Breakup?

Discussion in 'The Sound Hound Lounge' started by RichusRkr, Sep 9, 2019 at 3:47 PM.

  1. Godflesh999

    Godflesh999 Silver Supporting Member

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    I am on my fourth time listening through "The Nagra Reels", which is a bootleg of entire "Get Back" sessions, on which George is heard quitting the band on January 10, 1969, before being talked into coming back a couple of weeks later to finish the sessions (moving from Twickenham Studios to Apple Studios) and doing the show on the roof.

    The dialog of the members during these sessions is actually quite telling of the place that each one of them were in during this time, and they even discussed ending "The Beatles" during the sessions after George left...which, in my opinion, was because McCartney was incessantly cutting George down and telling him what to play (McCartney literally at one point tells George that some of his chords are "passé"). McCartney totally comes across as a totalitarian during the tapes.

    I think, after listening to the Nagra Reels, that each member (except Ringo, who was also acting in movies at the time) had their own music to make and the Beatles had reached the end of their collaboration. Each of them separately said that they felt like they were being held back by the others...
     
  2. abby_normal

    abby_normal Member

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    Paul played on Starr's 1973 album Ringo. Three of the Beatles, minus Paul, played on the Lennon song I'm the Greatest which was the first song on the LP. I believe George played on another one or two. One of my favorite albums from my youth. I was 15 years old in '73 and a huge Beatles fan thanks to my older sister who saw them live in '64 and '65 at the Olympia in Detroit. The rumours that were going around before the album was released was that the boys were getting back together and recording. At least that's what my sister told me, probably read in Cream.

    The fact it lasted as long as it did and produced some of the best music I've ever heard is good enough as far as I'm concerned.
     
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  3. Juneaumike

    Juneaumike Member

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    Ok, but this is the last time:

    Paul MaCartney and John Lennon are both searching for deep romantic love. Early on in John's childhood, Paul reveals how difficult and caring he can be by nearly climbing into John's crib in order to make sure he is breathing only to be reassured when John starts crying (after being woken up). After the death of Paul's mom, Paul and John develop an extremely close love-hate mother/daughter relationship as John grows up.

    Skipping forward several years, John gets married immediately upon graduating from high school to Yoko Ono, of whom Paul so disapproves that he refuses to attend the wedding. John's best friend George Harrison continues on to college, eventually becoming successful and rich in New York City.

    Over the next few years, John has two children with Yoko, a college professor who relocates the family to a university in Des Moines, Iowa, separating the family hundreds of miles from John's meddlesome friend.

    Meanwhile back in London, Paul remains celibate but cultivates the attention of several gentlemen in the area, some rather bizarre. However, he is attracted to his next-door neighbor of 15 years, the womanizing, alcoholic retired astronaut Ringo Starr. Paul and Ringo eventually go on a lunch date, make love, and develop a tenuous relationship.

    John returns to Paul's home in London after discovering Yoko is having an affair with a young grad student named Crankcase Taylor. John angrily confronts Yoko before taking daughter My Little Pony to the doctor's office so both can get flu shots. While administering the injection, John's doctor notices two large lumps under his armpit. Although only in his 30s, the doctor orders a biopsy and discovers he has cancer.

    To cheer him up, George Harrison invites John to New York City for his first vacation without children. However, after arriving, John feels out-of-place among George's friends and returns home early to begin chemotherapy treatment for his illness. His doctor soon breaks the news that the drugs he was taking did not have the desired effect, and that he will not survive his illness. Yoko and Paul remain by his bedside in the hospital for weeks.

    In a discussion in the hospital cafeteria, Paul tells Yoko bluntly that she does not have the energy managing a job, chasing women, and raising children. George Harrison, who has no children of his own, wants to adopt My Little Pony but Yoko and John do not want their kids to be separated. Yoko, feeling like a failure as both a father and a husband, agrees that having them live with Paul is best.

    As John's time begins to run short, eldest child Freeze Plug shows open resentment toward his mother due to circumstances such as social class, fights between his parents, and Freeze Plug's perception of feeling unloved. John reassures his two sons, and, after an altercation with Paul (he slaps Freeze Plug in the hospital parking lot for criticizing his John), Disposable Crewmember weeps in his grandmother's arms. John dies later that night. Following the funeral, John's friends and family gather in Paul's backyard for a memorial service. Ringo shows affection toward each of John's children and helps Freeze Plug cope during the wake.

    ... It's all pretty straightforward really.
     
  4. hellbender

    hellbender Member

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    The Beatle wonkiness on this board is mind blowing.
     
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  5. Motterpaul

    Motterpaul Tone is in the Ears

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    I really have to disagree with this. Paul had the great tenor voice, but Lennon's baritone with his ability to do really difficult and creative lower harmony parts made Mac's voice sound 1000 times better. Listen to John's vocal parts carefully sometimes and try to sing them - not easy. He also wrote some of band's best songs throughout the years. But he was more of a rocker than Paul. I personally never liked either of them as solo artists much.

    I think it was Apple that destroyed them, nothing is worse than a money sinkhole with four equal partners and no one in charge. If Brian Epstein had not committed suicide they probably would have stayed together forever because they all loved what they were able to do in the studio.
     
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  6. Pahom

    Pahom Member

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    The Beatles broke up because George Martin was no longer in the picture and the Beatles were afraid their fraud would be exposed if they tried to arrange and produce their own music.
     
  7. WWLaidback

    WWLaidback Member

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  8. BINGEWOOD

    BINGEWOOD Member

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    Waddaya do when you've accomplished everything you set out to do? Something else...
     
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  9. Juneaumike

    Juneaumike Member

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    Wait, crap. What I said before is the plot from Terms of Endearment. Sorry.

    Actually, Paul, George and Ringo wanted to drive around the country in a mystery van, playing music and solving crimes. John just wanted to lay around all day with his best bud, eating Scooby snacks and saying things like "Zoinks," and, well, he pretty much just says "Zoinks." But he says it in a lilting, trembling voice, like he uses to sing Cold Turkey.

    Anyway, strange happenings start plaguing Apple Records offices at night and the night janitor, Old Man Darby (his full name), says he's seen a ghost in the Accounts Payable office. Well, the Fabs set a trap and turns out Old Man Darby is behind the whole thing. Here's the kicker, they tear off his mask and its actually Allen Klein. He would have gotten away with it too, if it hadn't been for those meddling kids.

    John said "Zoinks" and Paul quits.

    And that's how the Beatles broke up. Or at least that's what I remember.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019 at 9:26 PM
  10. Thumpalumpacus

    Thumpalumpacus Member

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    It directly instigated the struggle for management -- Paul wanted Linda's dad(?), a lawyer, to manage them, the other three wanted ABKCO, if I remember correctly. That struggle, and the lawsuit it provoked, poisoned the well for the band, in my opinion.

    Add that to the natural growing-apart that often happens to childhood friendships, the pressure of being, well, the Beatles, and the other issues mentioned in this thread, and it seems clear that by the time TWA was released they were drifting apart and had little urge to change that course.

    All my opinion, YMMV, do not use this toaster in the bathtub, etc.
     
  11. RobBottom69

    RobBottom69 Member

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    According to the Peter Brown book, outside of Ringo/George's sulking, John told them all at a business meeting that he was done, he wanted a divorce like like the one he had from Cynthia. Not sure of the timeframe, but was after the Let It Be debacle and maybe after the Abbey Road album, and Klein was renegotiating the contracts with EMI and told Lennon that if news got out that the group was through it would hurt his deal, so nobody said anything. Apparently to dissolve the band contracts and dissolve Apple there was a huge tax obligation due and that was a constant source of bickering between Lennon and McCartney. Finally, to get out of the contracts, Paul had to sue.
     
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  12. Thumpalumpacus

    Thumpalumpacus Member

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    ... as did the Stones, who got a royal shafting from AK too. The guy epitomizes the crooked management cliche.
     
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  13. MkIII Renegade

    MkIII Renegade Member

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    Where do the Pirate Ghosts come in? :dunno
     
  14. DTuned

    DTuned Member

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    Ask Siri. She has a lengthy answer, starting with the decision to stop touring and the death of Brian Epstein.
     
  15. WWLaidback

    WWLaidback Member

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    "John wanted a divorce like he had with Cynthia"

    I'm not sure what that really means. Did he want visitation rights to the band?

    "Paul had to sue"

    In other words John was still holding onto the money. It was only half a divorce.
     
  16. Rockledge

    Rockledge Member

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    Fraud? The Beatles? hmmm.... exactly what fraud are you talking about, I have never heard about this.
    And how would them arranging and producing their own music expose it?
     
  17. Pahom

    Pahom Member

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    Fraud was unnecessarily harsh. Consider this...

    It is a matter of history that George Martin is widely regarded as being the 'fifth Beatle'. He was their producer all the way from the first single through to their final album to be recorded, Abbey Road. Few Beatles songs do not list George Martin as producer.

    However, there is strong evidence to suppose that Martin was more than just a producer. In fact, he virtually was The Beatles, and the four mop-headed lads from Liverpool had no higher status than the hired hands that fronted the Monkees.

    Let's look at the evidence. Firstly, of the very early material that has emerged, before George Martin's involvement, none achieves the status of anything more than energetically performed rock 'n' roll or cutesy ballad. Yet only a couple of years later 'their' writing was masterful.

    None of The Beatles had any musical training. However, the quality of the musical arrangements would stand comparison with the musical greats of any century. Take for example I Am The Walrus, credited to Lennon and McCartney but widely acknowledged to be Lennon's work. The introduction - just the introduction mind - has a sequence of eight complex chords that could only be the work of someone who has studied harmony deeply and has the wealth of background and experience to derive such a sequence. And who has that musical knowledge? George Martin of course who studied at the Guildhall School of Music. Martin has publicly proven himself to be a very capable composer.

    Now, take the arrangement for Penny Lane, ostensibly one of McCartney's songs. During this short song, the key changes - or modulates - no fewer than seven times. This would be a feat for a highly competent classically trained composer to accomplish (in a movement from a symphony, typically the key modulates once, then modulates back again, that's all). It would be impossible for a 24-year old McCartney to do this seven times in one song. George Martin could do it though - and in fact he has done it incredibly well because at no point does the listener become aware of any musical 'trickery' going on.

    My third demonstration is Eleanor Rigby. It is no secret that the string arrangement is the work of George Martin. But the song itself betrays touches of which Schubert would have been proud. And of course Schubert would have been part of Martin's musical education.

    The Beatles are widely regarded as studio innovators too. However, George Martin had already built up a significant reputation as a producer of comedy recordings before the advent of The Beatles. There is little in terms of creativity that Martin would not have been capable of, assisted by highly competent Abbey Road engineers.

    The final proof is the one complete album that George Martin did not produce - Let It Be. By this time, some of Martin's skills had rubbed off and most of the songs are workmanlike or even quite good (and some are dreadful). But compared to Revolver, Sgt. Pepper or Abbey Road? There's no comparison.

    I think it's time that The Beatles, well McCartney at least, come clean and give George Martin the credit he is due as the most successful popular songwriter and composer ever. The 'fifth Beatle'? George Martin was The Beatles!

    https://www.audiomasterclass.com/newsletter/george-martin-was-the-beatles
     
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  18. Thumpalumpacus

    Thumpalumpacus Member

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    Post hic ergo propter hoc.

    Correlation does not equal causation. Martin was surely important, but experience producing comedy records doesn't seem to translate very well.
     
  19. Val Diaz

    Val Diaz Member

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  20. Johnny Ninefingers

    Johnny Ninefingers Member

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    At the risk of falling foul of the mods, I think that rather far-fetched, though I do agree that the Beatles had more than four members and George Martin was one. Billy Preston was another. And the drummer replacements and Pete Best etc. But the core was John, Paul, George and Ringo.

    As for the composition stuff...

    You evidently haven't spent any time with any British folk of that vintage if you think they wouldn't have been exposed to classical music at an early age. John, Paul and George were grammar school boys. Their music lessons as 14 year olds would have been pretty academic. They get under-regarded by some folk because they weren't virtuoso musicians; but they were the greatest collective composers of the 20th century, which is virtuosity in a different field. I mean to say it is quite likely that Leopold wrote a lot of Wolfgang's early works, but by eight or nine, Mozart was righteously wowing the world. George Martin did have a classical background, but the star system in record companies meant that all major artists were given the facilities to develop their talents, which included education and exposure to lots of different music. Famously, John and Paul once just turned a piece of manuscript upside down and stole the first line. Backwards and upside-down Bach actually works thankfully. In fact a line in Harrison's multiple-modulated "Only a Northern Song" harks back to those grammar school music lessons. George actually took the p*ss in a very understated way.

    Also there is the Brian Wilson/Lennon-McCartney competition. Each of them mining Lassus and Gesualdo for ideas (I think it's on record - not sure if Aldous Huxley's writing on Gesualdo brought about the popular resurgence of multiple modulations in popular music, but it is true that the counter-culture had made Huxley a bit of a prophet.) There are social, cultural and contextual reasons for the move between Penny Lane, God Only Knows, Strawberry Fields etc. as each work pushed the other two composers to go the extra mile.

    It's a comfortable thesis to ascribe folks' successes to someone else. What is slightly more interesting is the new revelations about how the Beatles regarded their own songwriting in the light of Mark Lewisohn's tapes of post Abbey Road plans for a next album:

    https://www.theguardian.com/music/2...reak-up-mark-lewisohn-abbey-road-hornsey-road
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019 at 6:17 AM

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