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Heritage Colonial and GT Substi-tubes

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by biscuitcityroad, Sep 25, 2006.

  1. biscuitcityroad

    biscuitcityroad Member

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    Hi, i recently purchased a Heritage Colonial for my search for a Plexi style amp that i am using for some Heavy Classic Rock/Metal sounds. think Sabbath, Zep, Kyuss.....the only gripe i have is that i need to crank it to get the natural overdrive cooking.

    lately i've been using the THD hotplate to get it back to acceptable club volume, but i'm wondering if anyone has experience with the Groove Tubes Substi-tubes 928-PR to make the switch to el84 and lowering the overall wattage.

    I'm looking to achieve breakup and distortion at lower volumes than i currently have to crank it to.
     
  2. Leonc

    Leonc Wild Gear Hearder Gold Supporting Member

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    Old Bassman and JTM45 type amps (that the Colonial is closest to in its, um, Heritage, heheh) weren't known for gain. If you want to play metal and real hard rock and "get it all" from the amp, you'll probably need a different amp.

    That being said, I just use one or two different pedals with mine. This amp love most pedals. The later solos on this cip were done with the MI Audio Blues Pro (which you can typically in the Emporium find for 90-100 bux).
     
  3. PaulC

    PaulC Member

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    The Colonial is kind of a big stew made up of the plexi super lead,super bass,JTM45 and tweed bassman circuits. It's not a clone of any of these. It's more like a base circuit that can be turned into these with some simple switching options. The goal of the amp was to get those four classic amps into one head since they're about 80% the same thing to begin with. There's also some inbetween sounds you can get like having a JTM45 front end with a superlead tone stack, or a superlead with a tweed bassmans ouput and pwr supply.

    All of those amps are crank it to 10 type of amps with classic rock levels of overdrive. The amp is about 40 to 60 watts depending on what pwr supply setting and choice of output tubes you're using. It is loud, but then so were the amps it's based around.

    I've never used the GT thingys you're talking about. If they say they can be used in something like a 100 watt super lead then they might be cool. I dunno!! I'll see what I can find out from GT.

    Later, PaulC
    Heritage amps/Tim & timmy pedals
     
  4. biscuitcityroad

    biscuitcityroad Member

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    it'll be great to hear what you find out from GT.

    I know this amp isn't going to be a "get it all in one place" type amp, but my goal was to have an amazing sounding starting point that i can always put pedals in front of if i need a specific sound. its definitely a great sounding amp so far!
     
  5. PaulC

    PaulC Member

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    Well - if the starting point that you're looking for is found in a JTM45/plexi super lead & bass/ tweed bassman then the amp might work out for you since that's what it's about. If you're looking for lower volume crunch then it's either pedals of a MV styled amp.

    PaulC
    Heritage amps/Tim & timmy pedals
     
  6. r9player

    r9player Silver Supporting Member

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    I don't know how many tubes there are in this amp but if it has 4 powertubes you mght be able turn run with two .. not sure if you could run on 1 tube .. I'd ask and check.
    I bet Heritage probably has the answers.
    In general I'd say if you are expecting to get power tube type overdrive, then expect to be loud.
     
  7. garyrogue

    garyrogue Gold Supporting Member

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    2 power tubes, also the ability to use different ones with external bias.
     
  8. Leonc

    Leonc Wild Gear Hearder Gold Supporting Member

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    Bingo. Ya, r9, 2 tubes as Gary just said. It doesn't break up significantly until it's quite loud. It sounds great but it's indeed loud. I find myself using it as a great clean "launching" platform. It works great with pedals and the clean sound is really excellent. I've play some pretty small "r&r dungeons" heheh, using the Colonial and an open back 1x12 and some pedals.
     
  9. r9player

    r9player Silver Supporting Member

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    Would 2 6V6s do the job? That should knock down the output quite a bit.
     
  10. PaulC

    PaulC Member

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    Would 2 6V6s do the job? That should knock down the output quite a bit.
    You could use those, but only in the sag mode with a weber copper cap.

    The amp has two different pwr supplies in it. The sag mode has it's own transformer winding feeding a tube rect with low filtering. This is a pwr supply like what you'd find in a bassman/JTM 45. The punch mode has a higher voltage transformer winding with solid state rectifiers and high filtering. This one's for the punchy plexi stuff. There's also a change made to the preamp supply, and a change to the bias supply to keep the tubes biased right with both settings. We've got a patent applied for on this circuit.

    The punch mode would pop 6v6 tubes, but if you used a weber copper cap with a good amount of voltage drop you could use 6v6 tubes in the sag mode. You'd also want to bump up the speaker tap like you would with KT66's - ex. plug a 16 ohm cab into the 8 ohm speaker tap.

    Another nice way of dropping the volume is to use a parallel load. If you've got a 16 ohm cab get a 16 ohm dummy load, and plug them both into the 8 ohm jacks - the same way as if you had two 16 ohm cabs. The dummy load will eat up half of the wattage making the amp sort of act like a 25 watter. Pair that up with a pair of Celestion Heritage G12M, and you're rockin at a nice low stage volume.

    Later, PaulC
    Heritage amps/Tim & timmy pedals
     
  11. biscuitcityroad

    biscuitcityroad Member

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    hmmmm...would a 16ohm THD HotPlate work as the dummy load? would i need to attenuate down even though its not going into the cab?

    also, anyone here have experience with the Substi-tubes in an el34 amp like this (back to my original idea to lower the volume and get earlier amp distortion)?
     
  12. samtheman

    samtheman Member

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    Ah, I learn more everyday w/ Colonial, btw MI Audio Crunch Box w/ Burr Brown is awesome.....but what about PPIMV, what ya think PaulC?

    /sam
     
  13. biscuitcityroad

    biscuitcityroad Member

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    so at band practice last night, i used the two 8 ohm outputs from the head. one into my 16 Ohm cab and the other into the 16 ohm Hotplate set on Load. Lo and behold, the volume was about half and i could get the overdrive at a much lower volume.......

    the only issue i heard was that the sound was a bit too bassy overall even after adjusting the EQ's.......but i'll continue to mess with it.
     
  14. JxxWoo

    JxxWoo Member

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    What is the difference in doing this compared to just using the hotplate by itself??
     
  15. biscuitcityroad

    biscuitcityroad Member

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    with using the hotplate itself, i had to set it at -8 to get the volume down to practice room volume. Also, the cabinet started to get really woofy.....especially on palm muted notes......

    Paulc reccommended i try the splitting of the outs into both the hotplate on Load and the cab at 8ohms each. it definitely cut the volume coming out of the cab by a good amount while letting the tubes get pushed.

    for playing live, i'll still probably run the hotplate into the cab at -4 if i can keep my stage volume loud.
     
  16. Ric4001

    Ric4001 Member

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    Two observations:

    1. I have a Heritage Colonial head, and this amp takes a hotplate better than any other amp I have. Other amps get fizzy sounding with severe attenuation (like on the 16db variable setting). The Heritage Colonial retains a nice, grinding power tube crunch even at severe attenuation settings.

    2. Another option for lowering volume is to use an 8 ohm hotplate set on load, with a 16 ohm speaker hooked-up as a speaker parallel to the hotplate (i.e, the speaker is not connected to the hotplate -- it's connected to the amp in parallel with the hotplate). The effective impedance to the amp with this is 5.33 ohms, which should be safe to use with the 4 ohm setting (I've not tried this with the Colonial, but I have with my THD Flexi, which has a 4/8/16 ohm setting). The 8 ohm hotplate soaks up 2/3 of the power, leaving only 1/3 going to the 16 ohm speaker. You'll lose some high end, but that can be adjusted with the eq controls. Volume will drop dramatically with this set-up.
     
  17. biscuitcityroad

    biscuitcityroad Member

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    that's precisely what i did, but with a 16 ohm hotplate........plugged in my 16 ohm cab from one of the 8 ohm outs on the head. then plugged in my 16 ohm hotplate from the other 8 ohm out.

    it was amazing how i could crank the volumes on the head with this setup and get the nicest tube distortion at a reasonable volume. still though, i'd like to try the Groove Tubes Substitubes with the el84's soon just to compare the sound.
     
  18. JxxWoo

    JxxWoo Member

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    does what kind of ohm hotplate matter when using the hotplate set on load to split the power.

    I have a 16 ohm hotplate with a 16 ohm cabinet.
     
  19. biscuitcityroad

    biscuitcityroad Member

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    i think it should match your cabinet and then divide the 16 by 2 to get to 8 ohms for the outputs from the head........at least thats the science i'm working with!
     
  20. biscuitcityroad

    biscuitcityroad Member

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    PaulC, any word from the Groove Tubes crew as to how the Substi-tubes will effect this amp? any ideas from others out there.....?

    i know the el84 substitubes will make the amp run in Class A, but then there's no mastervolume, but then again, it'll only be 20 watts max with only two el84s.

    also, is the Briton II head more suited for classic rock types of overdrive?

    i played a 35 watt Sewell Blistertone today and that thing has 4 el84s and overdrive for days! almost too much !
     

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