Heritage g12m vs. Scumback m75

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by phaser, Sep 14, 2006.

  1. phaser

    phaser Member

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    Hi... does anyone have experience with -both- of these speakers?

    I would like to know which one is quieter (less efficient). The Heritage is listed as 96db and the Scumback 97db... how did this translate in actual usage?

    Also, any general tonal impressions comparing the two speakers are welcome.

    Thanks!
     
  2. osostrings

    osostrings Supporting Member

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    I second the desire for a comparison - I'm trying to figure out which to put in a future cab.
     
  3. Moods

    Moods Supporting Member

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    Jim loaned me a M75 a while back and I compared it to the G12M Heritage. The Heritage seemed slightly less efficient.

    <M
     
  4. osostrings

    osostrings Supporting Member

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    Any tonal differences?
     
  5. Moods

    Moods Supporting Member

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    The Heritage seemed slightly more compressed and smoother. The Scumback had more texture and better attack. In all fairness the Scumback was brand new and the Heritage was well broken in. Both sounded pretty good to me.

    <M
     
  6. GreenTea

    GreenTea Member

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    Bump...

    Any thoughts on the Celestion G-12 H vs. a H55 Scumback?
     
  7. bluessyndicate

    bluessyndicate Member

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    From what conversations I've had with Jim and others...a 3 db difference equates to twice the volume....so a 1 db difference in speakers would be about (1 + 1db/3db=1.33) 33% louder...i.e. if one is 100% loud then the other is 133% loud.
     
  8. Ricker

    Ricker Member

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    This is incorrect............10 db equates to twice the percieved volume.
    You're confusing it with 3db louder needs twice the wattage.
    A 100watt amp will theoretically be 3db louder than a 50watt.........but will be twice the percieved volume of say a 10 watt amp.

    cheers
    Rick
     
  9. celestion101

    celestion101 Silver Supporting Member

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    Just my .02 cents, but this is an apples to oranges comparsion unless you listen to both of them after hours of playing. Jim's done a great job at capturing a broken in Pre Rola sound, where ours are built as a brand new one would have sounded in the mid 60's. It comes down to what works for you. Both speakers have a lot of fanfare here, so good luck!
     
  10. GreenTea

    GreenTea Member

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    I favor the Scumback H55. Would a Scumback H55 be pleasing in an 1x12 open back el-84 amp (5W)? Or should I steer clear of a 1x12 with only the H55? Would this be OK?
     
  11. Scumback Speakers

    Scumback Speakers Gold Supporting Member

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    GreenTea...RE: Scumback H55 & Goodsell 5w/EL84 amp. As it's a 30 watt speaker with a low resonance cone (bass cone type) you need more than 5 watts to drive that kind of speaker cone effectively. I'd recommend the H75 instead, as it breaks up a bit easier then the H55, and should improve your low end, too. The minimum amp wattage I recommend for an H55 is around 20w clean to drive it into it's best audio range. The H55 bass cones are 1db less efficient than the H75's, so it takes a bit more wattage to work 'em!

    phaser...RE: Scumback M75 vs Cele 20w Heritage, the M75 has a bit more low end, and is a bit louder than the Cele. There's that 1 db difference coming into play again, too.

    With regards to the 3 db volume +/- volume thing... I've seen it described so many ways! My test to determine the difference was as follows: I've taken both H's and M's to a gig, with the same amp/cab/guitar/same club, just swapping out the speakers to test. I always had to turn my amp up to 6 on the master with the M's, and only 4 on the H's. I equate that (literally) to around 40-50% more power needed to get the same volume with M's as the H's...so for me, that's what describes the 3 db volume change in real terms you can relate to. Quad EL 84 (30W) Gibson Super Goldtone GA-30 amp head used for comparison in the club, but the same thing was true with the Major Crunch 20W amp.

    Thanks everyone! I appreciate the chance to answer some of your questions. Also, thanks for giving me something to talk about at 4 am after two wrong phone calls from some idiot's cell phone in Pomona, Ca.! LOL (No, "Dave's NOT here! Sheesh!")
     
  12. GreenTea

    GreenTea Member

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    Thanks, Jim! Order up for the H75! :AOK
     
  13. EXP

    EXP Supporting Member

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    Im reviving this thread, Id like to know more on how they compare as Im on the fence with both.
     
  14. Geetarpicker

    Geetarpicker Member

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    You may have seen my clips on Youtube and elsewhere playing my original Trainwreck Express amp though a '68 slant with '71 25 watt lead cone G12Ms. That said, I just got some Scumback speakers and here is a (partial) cut and paste from another forum.

    The Scumback M75s really impressed me when I got them last week and loaded them up into an old beater cab I have and compared them to my old favorite BW cab. When I first hooked them up I thought they actually sounded better than my old favorite '71 G12M 25 watt speakers! It turned out that they were so close to my originals tonally that the position in the room actually could make either cab sound better, original vs Scumback equiped. Basically it was getting down to room acoustic as to which was the better sounding cab, and that's without any time on the Scumbacks. I'll report back with clips at some point soon, after getting some gigging hours on them.

    I also plan to make some clips with these speakers and my '68 Superbass 100. In the last week I've done 2 gigs with my new speakers and my old Superbass and the tone ROCKED!

    I also have a 1974x Marshall combo with the G12M 20 watt Heritage. That speaker is great speaker. It has bit more extreme top end to my ear, but in a smooth way for the most part. It has a great feel to it, and cleans up very well. However I find when you really push it (which isn't very hard to do) the top end gets a little fizzy. I did some tests with this speaker compared to an old G12M 25 watter in the same cabinet and the 25 watter doesn't seem to have this same fizz issue when pushed. Anyway, I like the 20 watt Heritage but to me it sound it's best when you don't push it too hard. That said, a nice 25 watter seems to darken up a tad when it's pushed and stays sweet. Just my view on it. When I first would hear this fizz with my little 1974x combo I figured it was just the EL84 sound. Now I know the speaker is probably at least part of the slight fizz issue of the 1974x Marshall 18 watt combo.
     
  15. lewilson

    lewilson Member

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    i just put one of these in my homemade amp. Its a 12 to 15 watt champ circuit with an el34 output tube. I was using a 15 inch jensen p15 with the big alnico magnet. I think p15n. anyways the scumback really brought out the mids and calmed the high end. Its nice cause i mainly play a telecaster or lp jr . When the amp is cranked it really has a nice creamy midrange. At low volumes the tone is well balanced. All this with no tone controls!
     

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