Hi folks...wondering if I could get some opinions on 002 vs. Fireface

[SturmerChilton]

So there I was. My brand new computer bought "Allensteined" and about to drop the dough on on the Digi 002r and never mess with the Yamaha minidisk 4 track again. I searched long and hard to find which piece would be right for me, and I eventually came to the conclusion of the 002r for a few reasons


* built in pres that are supposedly pretty decent as well as converters.
* protools LE. Other packages I would have had to buy the hardware, THEN the software on top
* compatible formats. In case I wanted to send a track to a guy that would most likely have Pro-Tools he could easily edit it.
* I'm attracted to the firewire concept
* The rack version because I'm not really an engineer and didn't grow up with the 'feel of a board' so I'll just end up getting a cheaper control later
* all of the bundles. That bomb factory, with the Joe Meek and all that good stuff. Very very cool.

Then the stupidheads at RME went out and put out the Fireface

So I've rethought the issue. I see comparisons of the fireface to a lot of other pieces out there (MOTU, etc) but I haven't seen anyone compare it to the 002r which IMO is surprising (both being firewire based units) or maybe I'm missing something. Perhaps the Fireface is an entirely different thing. Some of the attractions towards this piece are

* Satisfaction from prior RME product owners. Great reviews
* Built in pres that are supposed to be fantastic
* Better A/D D/A converters.
* RME's 'steady clock'

But obviously missing the features of the factory bundle and the compatible format of pro tools.

As you see my dillema....feel free to offer up your opinion based on experience or heresay..I'm not picky
or tell me if I'm way off base and these are two completly uncomparable machines.

Thanks guys!

 

[Macaroni]

I can't comment specifically on the 002, but I do have the RME Multiface and the Fireface is their updated, enhanced version of that, so to speak. I would say there is no comparison re quality in all of the key areas you delineated. RME audio interfaces are considered among the best available in all respects, and the 002 is in another league (lower) altogether.

Then again, it appears from your post that your needs may be somewhat basic, and perhaps the Fireface is more than you really need at this point. I would recommend the Fireface to someone who wants to set up a full fledged home studio with other relatively high end gear, ie: pro vs prosumer. Users of Logic Pro, Nuendo, etc, vs ProTools LE.

Just some thoughts for your consideration.

 

[jnavas]

I can't comment too much on the 002r, but I recently sold a Digi 001 that I had for about a month.

I purchased the unit to get the feel of PTLE, figuring I could sell it for only slightly less than what I paid for it.

I find that Logic and Digital Performer are much better creativity tools than PTLe. Everyone is different, but if you are looking for a software package that will facilitate the use of soft synths and samplers as well as providing extensive audio and midi editing, I would look at another piece of hardware and perhaps going with Digital Performer or Logic. Basically, I found DP and Logic to Unfortunately, I haven't had a chance to experiment with Cubase yet.

The 002r does sound good (to my ears) and PTLe isn't a bad application at all. The best thing to do is find some folks who will let you try out their setups, or find a dealer who has demos up and running.

 

[jzucker]

I was very unimpressed with Pro Tools LE. Very buggy and lacked features. The 002 hardware was nice but you'd think for $1200 they could provide a windows driver that worked.

 

[kirk95]

Originally posted by jzucker
I was very unimpressed with Pro Tools LE. Very buggy and lacked features. The 002 hardware was nice but you'd think for $1200 they could provide a windows driver that worked.

Oh and Logic is cheap?

The issues are PC or MAC? Open or closed on the hardware side. Lots of midi features or more audio features.

If you are using a MAC, PT is a much more solid platform. On the PC don't go PT.

PT also locks you into Digidesign hardware. And without Digidesign hardware attached to your mac or pc the program will not even load. However, PT excels at audio editing and processing features. ProTools is the Industry standard. So if you want to go back and forth between pro studios and your studio.. that might be an advantage.

Logic is extremely difficult to learn, it's mac only (apple just acquired them), but is open on the hardware side. Logic has become the Pro Industry Standard for midi and sequencing.

Digital Performer was the leader for midi and sequencing a few years back. It integrates with ProTools better than Logic. It too is a mac only product.

EdG and ScottL (both on this board) are using the new Samplitude on the PC platform with good results.

Whatever platform you choose, prepare for a serious learning curve.

 

[Chiba]

I've done a lot of recording with ProTools LE and find it neither buggy nor lacking in features - at least, for me it had enough features to record an entire album.

However - I have never used it with a PC, only on several Mac systems both old & new. I have also never used any of the other platforms or programs mentioned above.

Audio and MIDI editing are super simple with ProTools. I went from 4-track cassette machines to ADATs to a Digi001 ProTools LE system and the transition to PTLE was simple, painless, and seamless - FOR ME.

If you can run a mixing board, you can use ProTools, it's that simple. Find the Record Enable, Mute, and Solo buttons and you're halfway there.

Anyway.

If the Fireface hardware suits your needs better than the Digi002R, go with that. Digidesign uses excellent pres and converters, but I'm sure somebody out there uses better. It comes down to a cost v. benefit analysis for you. All of the guitar, keyboard, and bass tracks on my band's album were recorded directly into the front, on-board preamps of my Digi001 unit and nobody has said, "Gee, Chiba, those songs are great but your preamps sound like ****".

ProTools is what it is, and if it suits your needs you will do very well using it.

--chiba

 

[Macaroni]

Logic is extremely difficult to learn

No it's not. That is a myth that has been floating around for a long time and it's completely bogus. It's just not true. I've personally shown Logic to several potential users and within an hour, they've seen how straightforward and easy it is to set up and use.

If you've got a complex MIDI setup, then you will have to spend the appropriate amount of time to set that up in the environment, but these days, people don't tend to have those setups. It's all done with software synths and instruments.

Logic is among the very best for audio and MIDI and it's easy to set up and use. Logic Express is only $300 and it is the same as Logic Pro, with less features, ie: track count, plugins, etc.

 

[MichaelK]

>> That is a myth that has been floating around for a long time and it's completely bogus.

I think it's a misunderstanding. What I've heard from Logic users is that it is a completely new learning curve if you're accustomed to other systems, but not inherently more difficult once you learn it.

However, it's not "easy," if easy is important.

 

[Macaroni]

However, it's not "easy," if easy is important.

I disagree. It is easy. If someone doesn't know much about DAW's then any program will present the same type of complexity. That's not the program's fault - it's the inexperience of the user. There are only so many ways you can do something within DAW's and they all basically do it the same way, with a few exceptions.

Logic is very, well... logical. Other systems may be a bit different to set up, but Logic in and of itself is about as straight forward to set up as anything can be. When you walk through the steps, it's very simple - identify your audio interface, name the inputs and outputs, create fader objects for them and connect the objects to their respective I/O counterparts, set up the Arrange window and Track Mixer and you're ready to go. That's a simplified version, but it's basically all there is to it. Sure there are Prefs, etc, but all programs of this nature will necessarily have the same elements to deal with - you can't escape that - because that is the nature of semi-pro or pro recording.

 

[MichaelK]

With all due respect, you are the first person I've ever encountered who has said Logic is "easy."

I didn't mean it as a put-down and I didn't mean to imply that it's significantly harder than any other pro audio app. There's always a learning curve. Some apps are a little easier to get up and running on a basic level on day one, but so what? IMO that's no basis on which to choose.

If he wants easy, he should get Cakewalk or whatever they call it now.

 

[GaryNattrass]

I have a digidesign 002 console running PT6.1 on XP and have had no problems at all.

 

[SturmerChilton]

Hey guys...thanks for all the replies. I still haven't bought my piece. I'm such an indecisive fellow. But I think I may end up with the fireface. I imagine I'll end up doing well with either one.

Of course softare platforms come next. I know you guys were arguing over the learning curve of Logic. That doesn't bother me as much as the fact that I have a PC so it's pretty much out of the question.

 

[SturmerChilton]

Originally posted by kirk95

If you are using a MAC, PT is a much more solid platform. On the PC don't go PT.

Over at the DUC they talk about the PC built to certain specs (which mine is) that actually works great with the digidesign stuff, and has outperformed the macs in many tests. I was a bit surprised. I'd still like to get a mac. If I could find a way to get over the hump of the new G5 imac's non-expandable hard drive I'd probably end up with one of those. Unfortunately I miss out on all the fun platform bickering because I love PCs AND Macs.

 

[proreverb68]

Heres some facts about my experience.
I bought the oo2 at a good price NEW.
Tried it out with my ibookg4.
DID not like the latency one bit!
SOld it. Bought an rme.
never thought abut it again.
Everythings better except that you do not and cannot use protools by itself.
SO there you have it from someone who owned both and kept the rme.
its less expensive in the long run actually.(depending on your needs)
Think about buying pres,ad converters etc..this does it all at a good level without the extra purchases.
That being said. It may actually be more than I really need.

 

[joseph]

The RME fireface is a great working and sounding piece of equipment. The manual however reinforces the stereotype of the German scientist with an IQ of 200.

On the plus side, they have frequent updates of their software, they really know what they're doing, AND they have a newsgroup where the guys answer tech problems promptly themselves (it's a small company).....I don't know how good the PT support is.


IMHO, it pays to spend 400 - 500 $ extra for a A/D interface that you may not need in terms of no. of channels, etc, because - at least with the fireface - the sound quality and latency are so good.

http://www.rme-audio.com/english/info/newsgrp.htm

But like it's been said above - the learning curve is STEEP and - in my case - LONG - ie, be prepared to spend 20 -30 hours in the beginning just to get the components 'talking' to each other....

dont' forget - it's STILL a computer

 

[tonefreak]

I run PT 7LE on a Windows XP, P4 system dedicated to recording, and I have not had one problem what so ever. I run Fxpansion BFD and NI Kontakt 2 on a bunch of Instrument channel on top of my audio channels... not worries.

Yeah, you're locked into Digidesign gear, but I feel the quality is very good. I'm not a million dollar producer... although I like to pretend I am, but that's another story.

I have use Logic Audio Platinum and Cubase SX... I then changed to ProTools and never had a desire to go anywhere else.

 

[µ¿ z3®ø™]

here's some questions to ponder...

does PTLE now have full PDC?
does the O2R have acceptable levels of latency?
does PTLE have enough tracks to support Ur projects?
does PTLE support the plugins that U want to use?
does PTLE support the bit rate/depth that U want to use to 'future proof' Ur projects?

 

[decay-o-caster]

Just to confuse the issue, is the M-Audio ProjectMix I/O an option for you? Getting that to replace my MOTU 828/II, and then finally giving up (for the moment) on DP4.x and replacing it with Ableton Live 5, has really opened up home recording for me. It's so simple now, really intuitive, and at least as powerful as I need.

If you're looking for the ability to make people think your third bedroom is Electric Ladyland or Bob Clearmountain's studio, well maybe this rig ain't there, but it's pretty fine for amateur level stuff anyway.

 

[MichaelK]

Guys - he asked the question over a year ago.

 

[decay-o-caster]

Hah!!! That is funny as ****!