Horace and Pete

Discussion in 'The Pub' started by elron hoover, May 7, 2016.

  1. elron hoover

    elron hoover Member

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    I just finished watching today. What an amazing ride! The ending left me feeling like a punch in the gut, but I'll withhold any spoilers. It was absolutely worth the $31 admission.

    Such great performances by all, and the writing... I could listen to the Horace and Pete's regulars banter and debate all day, especially when Kurt is involved. I'm glad Joe Pesci turned down the part of Uncle Pete, because Alan Alda is perfect. Edie Falco is top-notch, and Steve Buscemi's performance really hit me hard... Pete's such a tragic character!

    I believe some awards are in order. I'm curious to hear some of your opinions on this show.
     
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  2. Che_Guitarra

    Che_Guitarra Member

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    Can't wait to see. Louis CK is a gem. Seen a few shorts, but no complete episodes... yet.
     
  3. RCCola

    RCCola (|@ / \ @ |.) Gold Supporting Member

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    Forced myself to get through 3 episodes because I heard so much about Laurie Metcalf's monologue. I listened to Louis talk about the show on Opie & Jim and WTF w/Marc Maron.

    I think later Louie episodes and Horace and Pete are like when people call some music 'prog rock masturbation' - it's more for the enjoyment of the makers than the audience. I'm left thinking "what did I just watch? it wasn't funny, nothing in particular happened, no distinct observation was conveyed"

    Louis kept the show an absolute secret and I think it shows - the dialogue was not vetted through others, afict. Feels forced and contrived in many aspects.

    For example, the dialogue between the so-called conservative and liberal - felt like they were going through the motions. Nobody in a bar has a conversation that heated and it's just one person first going "this is what a conservative is" and then the next person saying "ok - this is what a liberal is". There's going to be interruptions and trying to talk over each other and more emotions than just sitting there calmly like a robot. And the guys were arguing before the mediator and then the energy level drops to 0 when each takes his turn. The guy defending liberals sounds like he's talking to a sleeping child. In my opinion.

    It's like Louis wanted to comment on the current times through these characters but he just literally describes what the two sides think, in his opinion. Take, for example, the flip side - All in the Family. Archie Bunker is a medium for describing some of the sentiments of the time. A character doesn't literally say 'this is what a conservative bigot is and what he/she believes in' - we, the audience, understand some of that through the character's actions and opinions on certain matters.

    The scripts apparently wrote themselves for Louis. I think when something flows out so quickly and is kept to oneself, there is the large chance of tunnel vision.

    I love Kurt Metzger on podcasts and understand he punches up scripts, but his lines seemed like he was reading. Camera cuts to him, 1 second pause, he starts yelling, and the others around him are mostly ignoring him.

    Steve Wright's contributions are more natrual, but he's doing what he always does. Little quiet jabs.

    Alan is definitely a beast of an actor and Edie Falco also - the two just do what they normally do. Seasoned professionals.

    Buschemi is a fine actor - but he started out kind of rough. The back-n-forth he has with Louis about the rags in episode 1 lacked rhythm - too long of a pause after Louis stops. Doesn't seem to convey the rising annoyance/frustration his character is going through as the conversation continues. There may have been some instances of Louis being too intimidated to properly direct the actors. You would think two "brothers" that grew up with each other would have more of a natural conversation. If I'm talking to somebody I grew up with and am arguing about something, I probably already know a lot of what the other person is going to try and say.

    I think there are cheap ways to say, and for people to think, this series includes social commentary. The date between the Tinder people. So, there are lonely older women out there and guys that just want sex. Ok - doesn't seem like a novel observation. It's nice that Tinder is documented so future generations can look back and see what was going on, but Louis doesn't really say much other than 'this thing existed'.

    Also Louis talked about making the show and how he had to develop a whole system to do the quick camera switches. When I watched, the camera work was actually pretty sloppy - the shot wouldn't be set up properly on switch so you see the camera wiggling/slowly zooming in a few seconds after and it's distracting.
     
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  4. Stratonator

    Stratonator Member

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    No offense intended in the least but you're the exact kind of person I would never accept a review of a show or movie from.

    You overanalyze everything and reading this wall of text, it gives the impression you'd only ever be satisfied with utter perfection. It's hard to fathom anything that could meet your approval considering just how incredibly demanding you seem to be.

    Even my favorite shows weren't perfect. There would be either plotholes or some episodes would try to deviate a little too much from the overall arc, or there were factors like a writers' strike which impacted an episode negatively, occasionally characters would say or react differently than what I envisioned. And the list goes on.

    Did any of that deter me from my enjoyment? No. It's a form of entertainment, not a scholarly lecture.

    I love Cheers. Next to nobody paid money for drinks. A bar this large with just one waitress for most of the episodes? A guy who can literally sleep with just any woman who comes in? A dozen people who are always regulars are there every day during the daytime while they almost all have jobs? Norm who didn't pay his tab in 11 years and didn't get kicked out? How about the selective cone of silence where somebody talks at low volume but is overheard on the other side of a busy/noisy bar while in another episode, 2 people talk not 4 feet away from somebody at a loud volume but aren't heard? I could on and on...

    Did ANY of that prevent me from enjoying the show? Absolutely not. Not even a tiny little bit. It's fiction. It's a play. You have to suspend your disbelief or else you'll never enjoy anything whether it's drama, comedy, action...
     
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  5. elron hoover

    elron hoover Member

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    There are many things wrong with your review, and that mainly comes from the fact you watched 3 episodes. That's like reviewing a movie you watched the first 20 minutes of. This is why you make wrong assumptions about the show, like, "you think two brothers who grew up with each other would have more of a natural conversation". They didn't grow up with each other - their mother left Pete behind when she took off with the kids, when Horace was less than 10-years-old and Pete was suffering his first mental break. Pete was institutionalized for much of his life after being left with his "father", and their teen years/early adulthood was spent apart from each other. With the way their mother was forced to escape, I doubt they got together often after that.

    As far as the political conversation between the bar patrons feeling unnatural, I don't really agree. These are all people who are regulars at this bar, and a most are tired alcoholics who don't really give a **** about what's going on in the world of politics because they are beyond the point of being naive enough to believe these things really matter in their own lives anymore. Sometimes people have conversations just to pass the time and forget about their mundane, dead-end lives, and it's not always going to end up in a shouting match simply because the conversation is of a political nature.

    Please watch the whole show and come back to complain about it, or don't bother reviewing it at all.
     
  6. RCCola

    RCCola (|@ / \ @ |.) Gold Supporting Member

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    I think it's presumptuous for you to think I care if you accept or do not accept my "review". My thoughts were given, that's all.

    Which parts did I overanalyze vs analyze? I thoroughly enjoyed True Detective Season 1 so that's something you can fathom.

    None of that is in line with my comments.

    What did you like about Horace and Pete if my comments are so disagreeable? What makes it such a great series? "Good acting" from Alan is not very descriptive or novel.
     
  7. RCCola

    RCCola (|@ / \ @ |.) Gold Supporting Member

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    Semantic argument over "grew up with each other" - the details you mention were explained in the 2nd episode so there wasn't additional watching necessary for the viewer to know the two were raised as brothers and spent time together starting as kids.

    You think Kurt Metzger's character doesn't care? He's pretty animated.

    I didn't say it needs to be a shouting match.

    Not sure why you are so offended with thoughts being given on the 3 episodes. I was upfront about how much I watched.

    I don't see how watching more will make me think some of the dialogue in the early episodes is any less robotic, for example.

    What are your thoughts on the show? You spent time to criticize my "review" but gave no real thoughts on the show.
     
  8. elron hoover

    elron hoover Member

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    No, it's not a "semantic argument". "Spending time starting as kids" isn't the same as growing up together. Horace was about 9-years-old when he was separated from Pete. I'm not sure why, given the circumstances, you think they would know each so well they should be "finishing each other's sentences", or why, if it's explained in the second episode, you seem to have ignored it. Many siblings who grow up entirely in the same household have difficulty communicating, especially when it's wrought with dysfunction. It's like your problem with it is, you think the characters should be fundamentally different than what they were written to be, and not really that they are unrealistic. I think you might be the type of person who has to always be "the critic", and that comes across in your assessment of a show you barely watched.

    I'm not "offended" at your thoughts given. I just can't help but criticize a review based on watching a fraction of the show. Why bother? Do you read part of a book and go write reviews on Amazon? Part of a movie? I've never seen a thread on a movie I saw only the beginning of, and thought, "hey, I'm gonna go write a review to tell everyone what's wrong with it". That would be ridiculous.
     
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  9. spunky

    spunky Member

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    Just finished episode 7. Wow!
    I guess I'll wait until I finish the series to make any serious comments, but I just wanted to say....wow! Alda, Falco, Buscemi, Louis, Lange...are hitting it out of the park....just terrific acting all around. Big kudos to Louis C.K for putting together a superb cast like this. Now that I've seen 7 episodes, I could not imagine anyone else in those roles, and to me, that signifies ace casting.
    The one negative....the first few episodes seemed to have an audio problem. It would seem that the actors are wearing body mics and there are instances of terrible volume differences between the mics. I'm not sure why this couldn't have been adjusted in the post mix but....what do I know.
     

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