How can a Celestion Alnico Blue cost 3 times as much as a Greenback ?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by BryanMatthews, Jun 25, 2008.

  1. BryanMatthews

    BryanMatthews Member

    Messages:
    3,919
    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2007
    Location:
    Planet Claire
    I was looking around and the cost of a Greenback 12 inch speaker is pretty reasonable, imagine my shock when I read that a 12 inch Celestion Alnico Blue costs three times as much :NUTS

    How can that be justified, are you paying for something audible or just a mojo surcharge ?

    Bryan
     
  2. HeeHaw

    HeeHaw Member

    Messages:
    4,961
    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2004
    Location:
    VA
    Alnico alloy is far more expensive than the run of the mill ceramic magnet speakers.
     
  3. improviduto

    improviduto Member

    Messages:
    193
    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2008
    Location:
    Midland, Texas
    So far as I know, ceramic magnets are cheaper to produce than AlNiCo.
     
  4. SatelliteAmps

    SatelliteAmps Member

    Messages:
    6,185
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2007
    Location:
    Normal Heights, Calif
    Aluminum, Nickel, and Cobalt are all expensive metals. They are the main components of AlNiCo magnets. The cost of all three of those metals has been going up again, and may affect speaker cost eventually.
     
  5. oacikgoz

    oacikgoz Member

    Messages:
    243
    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2007
    It's all about supply of the product. Alnico Blue is hailed as one of the best speakers ever produced and Celestion willingly supplies it in little amounts and that keeps the prices high. Celestion Blue clones come close to it but they don't sound like the real deal.

    I doubt that it's related with the cost of producing the speaker but the producer might be using that as an excuse. I don't think it costs Celestion more than 50 bucks to produce even their most expensive speaker. The prices are rationalized by the supply and demand sides of the market and not necessarily the costs associated with the production. (The economist has spoken) :D
     
  6. improviduto

    improviduto Member

    Messages:
    193
    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2008
    Location:
    Midland, Texas
    Except for the fact that AlNiCo speakers from companies across the board have seen significant price increases. For example, Jensen's P12N AlNiCo retailed for about $150 early last year and $175 this year. Within the last month, the retail price has jumped again to $210.

    Given the increased demand for these metals worldwide, relative to their scarcity, prices have gone up significantly; although, nickel in the U.S. seems to be going down. Cobalt, imo, is the biggest culprit. 99.8 cobalt, for example, has increased from about $40 to just under $48/lb. in the last six months alone due to skyrocketing global demand. A year ago, the price was just over $28/lb. Five years ago, it was about $10/lb.

    As for the statement in bold, it's not in a company's best interest to withhold production. There's an equilibrium for maximizing profit, and Celestion is operating at that level in all likelihood. Besides, Celestion isn't the only firm that produces AlNiCo speakers. The company would be doing its stakeholders a disservice to not maximize profits and let its competitors get its potential business.

    As for costs not being associated with production, that's just plain silly. The price of cobalt has increased and the availability of the raw material has decreased. Less material available affects supply, which, given demand has stayed the same, causes an increase in price. An increase in the price of a raw material, given demand has stayed the same, means higher cost of production. This higher cost is passed on to the consumer. In the case of AlNiCo speakers, there's a bit of both. Regardless, cost of production is a significant factor.
     
  7. vinney57

    vinney57 Member

    Messages:
    583
    Joined:
    May 12, 2006
    Location:
    The UK of Englandshire
    Wow. Complete rubbish.
     
  8. celestion101

    celestion101 Silver Supporting Member

    Messages:
    1,812
    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2004
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    It's been said....
    1. The cost to build these is huge and going up everyday
    2. Built in the UK...
    3. We do make a little on them but not as much as some forumites would like to say. We are in business (vs. a charity) so that seems fair enough.
     
  9. Gasp100

    Gasp100 Silver Supporting Member

    Messages:
    16,868
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2007
    Location:
    North Myrtle Beach, SC
    What he said...:agree
     
  10. CrazyHeart

    CrazyHeart Member

    Messages:
    41
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    Location:
    Bethlehem, PA
    They are worth what someone will pay for them. Evidently ... they are worth every penny!
     
  11. Loves_LPs

    Loves_LPs Member

    Messages:
    100
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2005
    Location:
    Plant City (Tampa area)
    I suspect the major determinant is DEMAND
     
  12. JimmyR

    JimmyR Member

    Messages:
    3,793
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2006
    Location:
    sub lacum
    Other than the cost of materials I suspect a big part of the price difference is that they're made in the UK whereas the GB is made in China. Look at the price of a Heritage speaker. Made in UK will be higher regardless of materials. With a lot of these things it's labour which is the highest cost.
     
  13. cnardone

    cnardone Member

    Messages:
    2,082
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2002
    Location:
    Stony Point, NY
    Unfortunately, magic doesn't come cheap.
     
  14. littlejohn

    littlejohn Member

    Messages:
    970
    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2003
    Location:
    New Market, MD
    Probably is something to that UK labor thing. So the Heritage costs say $195 @ MF...the Blue is $279, but we pick them up for less of course, even through this board....now, what is the difference in the magnet cost and there is more labor or something "tricky" about making the Alnico Blue? Any thoughts? Yea tricky, that's the answer!
     
  15. improviduto

    improviduto Member

    Messages:
    193
    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2008
    Location:
    Midland, Texas
    The cost of labor and of materials both factor into price setting.
     
  16. smolder

    smolder Gold Supporting Member

    Messages:
    13,850
    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2008
    Location:
    Central Rocky Mountains
    Forget about supply and demand and forget about how much they cost to make.

    Simply listen to the range of speakers and decide if the higher cost is worth it. How many people spend an extra 2 grand so their Les Paul has a flame top. Doesn't make it sound any better? But the extra jack may be worth it for blues... if they don't sound that much better - don't sweat it.

    Why pay for something you can't hear?
     
  17. shuie

    shuie Member

    Messages:
    1,301
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2006
    Location:
    ...down Highway 61
    Because people pay 3x as much for them.
     
  18. SkipTracer

    SkipTracer Member

    Messages:
    416
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2007
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    I've read somewhere (on Plexi Palace I think) that the Blues in the Vox Heritage and Custom Classic series are actually made in China. Can you or anyone else confirm that?
     
  19. celestion101

    celestion101 Silver Supporting Member

    Messages:
    1,812
    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2004
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    The Vox business is managed from our HQ in the UK, but I have not heard that. The internet is a wonder place for rumors!;)
     
  20. Jack DeVille

    Jack DeVille Member

    Messages:
    1,940
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2008
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    its true. they sound phenomenal and are worth every stinking penny.
    :banana:banana:banana
    just my $0.02
     

Share This Page