How come Timothy Dalton is considered a bad Bond?

Discussion in 'The Pub' started by kindness, Aug 3, 2015.

  1. Shiny_Beast

    Shiny_Beast Supporting Member

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    I don't have much recollection of the earlier bonds with Connery. I grew up with Roger Moore and all the gadgets which suited me fine. I actually liked his reserved understated demeanor, somehow he has always been the most "secret" of all the bonds, maybe cause of all the campy dohickies in those movies?

    Brosnan had the right look and the right idea but he was kind of too generic in a way, I always saw him as Brosnan instead of Bond. I think he finally won me over as being "Bond" in the last couple he did.

    Craig would be my pic if I really had to call it, but it's apples and oranges.

    I liked Lazenby, but one movie...disqualified.
     
  2. Blix

    Blix Supporting Member

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    Watching Tomorrow Never Dies as I type, now this is proper Bond.
     
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  3. MicroAgression

    MicroAgression Member

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    Everyone in their prime, big fist fight, in think Dalton and Connery would be the last two standing.
     
  4. DustyRhodesJr

    DustyRhodesJr Supporting Member

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    I thought he was a great Bond, as was Brosnan.

    Much better than Daniel Craig.
     
  5. Papanate

    Papanate Gold Supporting Member

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    A rather bleak one from the king of Bleak pointless simian edited claptrap - YMMV.

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Shiny McShine

    Shiny McShine Member

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    To me, Dalton didn't really seem very dangerous. Brosnan to me was the weakest Bond though. Moore was also a little too much the undercover dandy. Craig seems like he could actually take a punch though Brosnan was a pugilist? Go figure.
     
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  7. A-Bone

    A-Bone Montonero, MOY, Multitudes Gold Supporting Member

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    I take it you are likewise no fan of Mr. Ritchie's work.
     
  8. Jonny Hotnuts

    Jonny Hotnuts Member

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  9. Papanate

    Papanate Gold Supporting Member

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    Ha! Except for the first Sherlock Holmes movie - I think he is one of those career
    tax shelter directors.
     
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  10. Remer

    Remer Golden member. See Below. Gold Supporting Member

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    Connery, Craig, Dalton, Brosnan, Moore, Lazenby.

    This might be blasphemy but I never bought Brosnan as any kind of 00 agent. I think he would have been a better M or literally anything else. That said, he was still better than Roger Moore.
     
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  11. ethomas1013

    ethomas1013 Supporting Member

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    Connery, Craig, Moore, Dalton, Bronsan, Lazenby.

    Bronsan suffers from three horribly bad Bond Films (Goldeneye is pretty good). Had the movies been better, I would move him up my list. I just can't get past how bad the three movies after Goldeneye are to move him higher.

    Moore was the first Bond I ever saw (The Spy Who Loved Me) so he has the advantage of making the first impression of Bond on me. Plus, that's one of the better Bond films. When I later saw the Connery movies, Moore was my preference. That has not stood the test of time...

    I liked Dalton when those two films initially came out. Coming after the worst film in the entire series (A View to a Kill) with a WAY too old Moore, almost anything would have been an improvement.

    I'm a big fan of the Craig movies. Other than Quantum of Solace, which is a disappointment. Skyfall is possibly my favorite of the entire series.
     
  12. Average Joe

    Average Joe Member

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    I'm the odd man out apparently, cause I don't think Moore was bad at all in the early movies. He overstayed his welcome in the part by several movies, but the main problem of the Moore era is that the writing got silly. Connery would have looked just as much of a fool in Moonraker or Octopussy.

    As for Dalton, count me in the good portrayal in crappy movies crowd. He did well, but there's only so much you can do with those campier movies
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
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  13. Papanate

    Papanate Gold Supporting Member

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    In order to appreciate each of the Bonds - I think we need to be
    in a Era Specific mindset. I look at the Connery Bond and remember
    what the early 1960s were like - The Space Age; The Era of Discovery;
    and the last vestiges of a post WWII Mans Man world.

    Roger Moore's portrayal was problematic on many different planes. The writers
    had clearly ran into a technology block in the 1970s and 1980s era.
    One of the key Bond elements - Cool Technology - was part of daily life.
    So unfortunately (to me) the writers turned their focus on creating a 'cool'
    personality. And IMO Roger Moore was his manner - the antithesis of cool. He came
    across as a throwback - almost vaudevillian annoyance. He was slippery and greasy.

    Timothy Dalton 1980s era seemed more of a holding pattern Bond. The producers
    still wanted movies out (and money coming in) - but had no idea where to take
    the franchise. The writers were killed by more exciting characters in more interesting
    scenarios - Darth Vader/Hans Solo - Indiana Jones - Star Trek's Kirk, Spock, Kahn
    and the Back to the Future franchise. Dalton's Bond appeared to be a reaction to
    the Moore Era and almost a Archeology Experiment.

    Piece Bronson was a relief valve Bond - meant to recapture the 'magic' while
    living in the present day higher tech but frightening real world evil. Bond's
    enemies no longer looked uncommon - all sorts of real life people were
    superseding anything a 1960s era Bond Villain had considered. Technology
    was understood and advanced beyond any other time. Bronson was kind of
    the IT Bond who relied on luck more than any thing else. Bronson was also
    the most obvious 'agent' - it's not likely that every bad guy on earth would
    not know about him. Still there were cool moments - specifically his last
    film Die Another Day - the opening 20 minutes - revealed what a Bond
    life was really like - Dark, Depressing, Chalk full of Personal Horror
    that Bond had to bore alone - there was no rescue anymore.

    Daniel Craig - his era started with a remake of a non start Bond movie. Quite ridiculous
    and boring scenes of gambling as a euphemism for evil to take chances. Bond
    exist in a world unlike any other he's faced - but his nemesis characters - still
    won't kill him - instead they resort to poisoning and other 'he'll escape this'
    routines. Craig Era movies are my least favorite - but he is my second most
    favorite Bond - Craig's portrayal (along with how the character is scripted)
    indicates a functioning narcissistic serial killer with a huge sense of loyalty to
    his 'handlers'. IMO that's the real Bond - his life is full of constant terrors
    and he reacts violently to everything - even his 'romances'.

    Goerge Lazerby only gets a mention because he was in a Bond film.
    He didn't define the role - and was more of a 50s era man.
     
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  14. Remer

    Remer Golden member. See Below. Gold Supporting Member

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    It wasn't that bad. Armie Hammer was legit. Cavill...take him or leave him in anything other than Superman for me....
     
  15. Papanate

    Papanate Gold Supporting Member

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    The comment was directed at the Director.
     
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  16. VanWhelan

    VanWhelan Member

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    This is pretty much it. When Roger Moore's time as Bond was up, everyone was hoping for Pierce Brosnan to take over, but he couldn't get out of his Remington Steele contract, so he had to pass & they got Dalton instead.

    I agree that Dalton did a good job as Bond, and he tried to portray Bond a lot more faithfully to the literary character. Unfortunately, people wanted Brosnan, and were too used to Roger Moore's humorous take on Bond.

    I think the other thing that hurt Dalton was two lackluster scripts. IMO, The Living Daylights and License to Kill were never really considered to be in the realm of good Bond films. Although I will admit that "License To Kill" has grown on me more over time. To be fair, some of the Pierce Brosnan films aren't that great either.

    Sean Connery will always be the best Bond IMO - his portrayal is tough to beat. I think that Daniel Craig has done a really good job too - probably the closest to Connery, with some of Dalton's "darkness" mixed in. His Bond is also the most realistic, as he takes some hits here and there. Pierce Brosnan was pretty much what people were expecting, but I always found it funny how he walked out of every situation with perfect hair & never breaking a sweat.

    Roger Moore's earlier films were better, but his later ones got too campy. Too many corny jokes and too many sci-fi gadgets. George Lazenby wasn't terrible, but I think his problem was that he wasn't Connery. It would've been interesting to see him do "Diamonds Are Forever" and "Live and Let Die".
     
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  17. VanWhelan

    VanWhelan Member

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    I disagree - I'd have to give it to Daniel Craig. He's a lot nastier & grittier than the others
     
  18. VanWhelan

    VanWhelan Member

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    My favorite Bond girl!
     
  19. stevieboy

    stevieboy Clouds yell at me Silver Supporting Member

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    That doesn't mention his action at Navarone. I guess that's still classified or something. :dunno
     
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  20. A-Bone

    A-Bone Montonero, MOY, Multitudes Gold Supporting Member

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    That made me laugh for real. Well played.
     

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