How computers ruined rock music

Discussion in 'The Sound Hound Lounge' started by LP Freak, Apr 14, 2019 at 1:30 PM.

  1. BlueRiff

    BlueRiff Silver Supporting Member

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    Totally get it. For sure it was looser back then and kind of experimental since rock was new so no one knew what sold anyway - and that was kind of a magical time. But even then Col. Parker grabbed Elvis and turned into a $$ machine. But now there is no risk taking at all in popular music - it's repeat what is successful or GTFO pretty much. I say popular music because there is definitely experimentation going on under the radar for sure.
     
  2. Timboguitar

    Timboguitar Member

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    For the last ten years or so, for the first time since there was a singing/dancing human community; people have been singing, dancing and grooving to a beat generated by a machine. Up until then, the music we grooved to was music to the heartbeat of the musicians and audience who participated. Kinda creepy, if you ask me. And are there, or will there be consequences we don't understand? The human heart has been ripped out of our music. Replaced with Mr. Roboto....
     
  3. slybird

    slybird Member

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    Have you looked at the full collection of his videos? Some of the songs he thinks are great were made on computer DAWs with drum machines. He is contradicting himself. He was either saying BS when he said those songs are great or he is saying BS in this one. I think he is saying BS in this one.
     
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  4. DonaldDemon

    DonaldDemon Member

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    I just saw a new(ish) band a few weeks ago in NYC, King Buffalo, and they mostly did just that. Locked into a solid groove and improvised over it. They blew me away and I was a fan before seeing them live. They are out there, just gotta find the right rock to turnover.
     
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  5. Rockledge

    Rockledge Member

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    Exactly right on. No risk taking. Not only that, during rock labels would hang onto a band for sometimes 4 albums or more before one hit big, they took time developing the artist and letting them stretch their wings.
    Now if they aren't pulling down baskets of bananas right from the start, they are lucky to make it to album number 2 before they are dropped.
    Also, back when Elvis and the Beatles started, there wasn't the superstar money like there is now, those guys all did music because they loved it and seen it as a way to do what they enjoy without having a day job, nothing more.
    As early as the late 70s I was in bands with guys who it was obvious they had no real passion for music, they just wanted to be "rock stars" and were too busy living up to some ill perceived notion of what a rock star is to be creative.
    I know a very good drummer who, God love the guy, he just never grew up and still tries to be a "rock star" all the time, and pisses everybody off in the process, he just doesn't get it and never will.

    There is much creativity to be had with digital toys. I think all the rock creativity went off into other styles, by both rock guys and new artists. I listen to stuff like Enigma and the Orb and I hear a lot of creative stuff going on in the music, even though it is 8o% technology and the rest human ingenuity. Because they use it to do something different.
    During the 80s when the rock parody stuff like GnR was going on, I defected from it and went to New Age music, which is where the rock approach to creativity was then. Tangerine Dream,
    Volenwieder, Kitaro, and like that. Plenty of rock guys such as Mickey Hart and Anthony Phillips
    and others whose names escape me drifted from rock to New Age as a creative outlet.
     
  6. Chris Scott

    Chris Scott Silver Supporting Member

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    Yeah, you may have a point there, and I'd really like to see those tunes on a grid to see just how they stack up.

    I still feel that a good chunk of that which makes music so interesting is the humanity - not only the creation, e.g. the writing, melody, progression, counterpoint, beat etc but also the natural fluctuation of the tempo and the slight variation of pitch that help to give it human character.

    An example I guess would be the story I've heard of Giles Martin running a handful of older Beatles tunes through Pro Tools....all the vocals, drums and guitars (not just for instrument pitch - the power supplies on those old AC30's would sag when hit hard, causing the notes to flatten just a bit) got "fixed", and upon playback the tunes apparently "sounded like ass"...not hard to imagine, as anyone with a decent ear can hear irregularities in both pitch and tempo, but who's ever complained?
     
  7. DreamTheaterRules

    DreamTheaterRules Former Lyricist for Calhoun Tubbs Silver Supporting Member

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    Sorry, it’s not that at all if you actually watched the video. Calling BS on this one.
     
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  8. DreamTheaterRules

    DreamTheaterRules Former Lyricist for Calhoun Tubbs Silver Supporting Member

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    LOL! Yet another post that has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with what the video said.

    Keeper profiles are completely unrelated to the issue he has with with music.
     
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  9. Laketta

    Laketta Member

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    Yes, testosterone is so 1980's..
     
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  10. DreamTheaterRules

    DreamTheaterRules Former Lyricist for Calhoun Tubbs Silver Supporting Member

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    Just curious, laddie. Did you even watch the video?

    Guy said he’d used Pro Tools for 14 years. He’s an industry guy who makes his living on the computer. He specifically cited two things DONE ON the computer that he thinks have ruined the feel, vibe and SOUL of the music. Yet poster after poster make remarks like this... Looks like a lot of you young pups like to share your response before you even know what happened. You might want to watch the video and then see how accurate your statement is. Or not.

    Many of these posts are as clueless as someone posting “internet porn is bad.” Then a bunch of guys posting saying “you’re a hypocrite because you’re on the internet posting at The Gear Page.” :dunno:dunno
     
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  11. Thumpalumpacus

    Thumpalumpacus Member

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    I listened to this the other day for the first time in quite a few years. It just sounds in the pocket. I don't know what gear they used, and I don't think it's important, because they get it. This is how you rock:

     
  12. JohnnyBGoode

    JohnnyBGoode Member

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    No. Has nothing to do with production.
     
  13. Thumpalumpacus

    Thumpalumpacus Member

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    [Emphasis added]

    Brotha gets it.
     
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  14. kludge

    kludge The droid you're looking for Silver Supporting Member

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    But there's plenty of risk taking still going on in music. And the average TGPer would hate it if they ever put down the latest Van Halen remaster long enough to hear it. It's hard to be seriously experimental in rock, but there are other genres. Hip-hop and electronica have been fountains of new ideas. There some amazing things going on in world music today (check out Yemen Blues, Riff Cohen, A-WA, and other third-generation Jewish Arab acts from Israel!).

    There's a sinister, awful idea underlying the criticism of modern music - the idea that today's youth are inferior. That they lack imagination, they lack courage, they lack fire. Their music sucks because they suck. It's an awful, evil idea, and I will continue to loudly mock those expressing it every time another one of this idiotic uphill both ways threads crops up.

    Because if you give up the idea that today's music sucks because today's youth sucks, then you're back to some responsibility - maybe, just maybe, there's amazing music happening, and you're just not cool enough to know about it. Nah, it can't be that.
     
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  15. Rockledge

    Rockledge Member

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    Irregularities in pitch and tempo are part of what made rock music sound great, it sounded like the passion of the musicians was coming through.
    Analog emotion vs binary preciseness. Give me the precision with variations of a human any day over the unwavering stoic absolute correctness of a machine.
     
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  16. GulfportBound

    GulfportBound Member

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    Out in my burg I've turned over enough rocks to build me a Flintstone house.

    I have to hope sooner or later enough gems come up that I can put the band I want together.
     
  17. Rockledge

    Rockledge Member

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    Q: What do men use woks for?
    A: oil changes

    One of the key compontents to music during rock was the fact that it was very experimental and unconventional. What made rock and psychedelic music so interesting was that musicians and producers were tossing the owners manuals to tape decks, mixing consoles, and musical instruments away and using them in was other than they were intended, which was very unconventional.

    I don't see anyone blaming what has happened to music on youth, other than perhaps that the music consuming public has become even more gullible than in the past.
    I seriously doubt it was young people who were at the helms of record labels that have tolerated the compression poisoning of music or the shift from discovering talented musicians toward creating "stars" out of musicians who are so enthralled with the hopes of being "stars" they are too pliable to be creative.
    I listen to a lot of different styles of music, and generations. I think Greta Van Fleet are enormously gifted and creative, and they are likely younger than my grandkids. I like a lot of bands who came after the rock era but got rock, such as the Black Crowes , Steve Wilson, GVF, as well as younger musicians in other styles such as New Age and Techno.

    I don't get the impression that anyone my age thinks todays youth sucks, and in fact the reality is that my generation was supposed to make this world a better place and dropped the ball and left young people with a sh!t brick, part of which includes a music industry that is far more obsessed with creating wealth than it is with creating good music.
    Most people my age are well aware that our generation had the luck of the draw.
    And we didn't exactly take advantage of it as well as we could have.
    But that is all quite moot. The reality is that there are a lot of things in music that are broke and need fixed and I don't think anyone cares about the numbers on birth certificates when it comes to who does the fixing.

    To view this as some struggle between generations is a bit myopic.
     
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  18. kludge

    kludge The droid you're looking for Silver Supporting Member

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    Really? Because I see this framed as a "kids these days" argument all the time. It's inherent in the argument that today's music sucks. I mean, the Boomers made late 1960s-1970s rock out of nothing, right? So why aren't kids today being equally creative? After all, computer-aided music should open up creativity even more than electricity did.

    And what I'm saying is they are just as creative, just as prolific as the Boomers were. But a Boomer-centric mentality doesn't see it, because they simply don't know what's going on in music anymore. If they heard actual new music that broke their concept of "music" as much as their rock broke their parents' concept of music, they'd be just as alienated and angry as their parents were. And some of it would. I can't imagine TGP extending a warm welcome to, say, a soundtrack collection from Steven Universe (an animated show full of fantastic original music).

    Seriously, how many people here have bought a record made by anyone under 30 years old lately? That's not Greta Van Fleet? Not many, I'd wager. How do you know today's music sucks if you don't actually listen to it?

    Now, I'd agree that new radio-oriented, mainstream music kinda sucks these days. But I'm old enough to remember that it kinda sucked when I was a kid, too, despite the brilliant things that were happening at the time. Sure, Led Zeppelin has sold 300 million records, but Olivia Newton-John sold 100 million. Commercial music has gotten better at excluding creativity, but it's always been very good at it.

    Blaming grid-synced music or whatever is a cop-out. Go back to the 1960s, when much of popular music was throwaway faces over backing tracks cut by a handful of full-time studio musicians (Wrecking Crew, Funk Brothers, Stax house band, etc). How different is that, really?

    And isn't rock'n'roll supposed to be about rebellion? About sticking it to the man? So if all the music sucks because of Beat Detective and Autotune and it doesn't even take any talent anymore (count how many times THAT has been said in this thread), why aren't the kids rebelling? And then we're back to the hidden assumption. It's because they're weak, that they lack the character that gave the Boomers the best music ever made by anyone.

    So when T-Pain turned Autotune itself into a music instrument? Well, that's just stupid, right? When hip-hop DJs cut up old grooves into new magic? Heck, that's stealing! And who even knows what's going on in Africa and China? Do they even have music there? We want new music to be creative, as long as it uses only two guitars, bass, and drums. If it sounds like anything that happened before, it's hipster plagiarism. If it doesn't, it's stupid.

    But music these days... there's no life, there's no soul, and it's because of technology (technology being defined as anything that wasn't around when I was a kid), and kids today lack the character to resist the technology and the corporate hand. We don't have to listen. We know.
     
  19. pedalparty

    pedalparty Member

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    I agree. I also feel like thats all Beato is really trying to say.
     
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  20. BriSol

    BriSol Member

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    I have to say that this point occured to me in the back of my head as well, I.E. some of what Beato himself praises in some of his videos is some pretty quantized and bland contemporary pop-rock production stuff that leaves me scratching my head that he's the same guy who talks like a jazz and avante guard enthusiast in the other half of his videos.
     
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