How did Creedence get their tone?

Discussion in 'The Sound Hound Lounge' started by HugoTheCat, Aug 10, 2019.

  1. jeff5371

    jeff5371 Silver Supporting Member

    Messages:
    844
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    CCR was a killer band and Fogerty a great songwriter. That's the way I view it anyway. Taken apart and as pieces, neither is as good as the whole.

    That live stuff is great, you can see, hear and feel what a tight, great band they were. I keep wanted to get John a longer cord though....
     
    caffeiniac likes this.
  2. DSL74

    DSL74 Member

    Messages:
    1,440
    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2014
    I saw them live in Hawaii back in their heyday, around 1970. Fogerty was using the Kustom amps, Les Paul and Rickenbacker. They sounded great, I actually remember thinking that they sounded better live than their records that I listened to a lot back then.
     
  3. OM Flyer

    OM Flyer Member

    Messages:
    3,984
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2008
    Location:
    An island of blue in a sea of red
    All the lawsuits in the world won't change how great they sounded when they were a band.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
    DC1 and drlucky like this.
  4. VaughnC

    VaughnC Supporting Member

    Messages:
    16,816
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I love the sound Fogerty got from his "Acme" Ric 325...but Ric's tend to get my goat no matter who's playing them! Sometimes I swear at my Ric's quirks but, when I plug in and hit just one chord, I get that "Oh Yeah" feeling every time!

    However, I always liked CCR and their ultimate garage band sound...Fogerty has more guitar & songwriting hooks than a fisherman's tackle box! It's really sad the band imploded as it would have been interesting to see what direction their music would have taken. But I do agree that Fogerty sounded better with them than without them. Even in my weekend warrior band experience I've noticed there's something to band chemistry and it's not always the best players that makes a band click.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
  5. JK1965

    JK1965 Silver Supporting Member

    Messages:
    3,420
    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2016
    Location:
    York Pa
    Yeah I always liked the tone on the records. Kind of Blackface or Silverface to me. You could certainly play those songs with just that and it would work well.
     
    rollyfoster likes this.
  6. JK1965

    JK1965 Silver Supporting Member

    Messages:
    3,420
    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2016
    Location:
    York Pa
    Well then that’s why I always thought BF or SF Fender on a lot of that stuff. My DR can certainly handle that very well.
     
    Flogger59 likes this.
  7. Kyle B

    Kyle B Supporting Member

    Messages:
    4,879
    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2012
    Location:
    Western NY
    Rolling stone called it the worst album ever by a major rock group

    RS was right, and so was John. Too bad he had to sully CCR's rep with that horrible album just to prove his point. "Sweet Hitchhiker' and "Hello Mary Lou" are good tracks - But not surprisingly, those are Johns (Yes, Mary Lou is a cover, but def. has the CCR edge to it)
     
  8. gonzoknife

    gonzoknife Member

    Messages:
    151
    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2008
    I got to hang with Stu Cook a few times in college (early 90s) because he was married to a student friend (since divorced). He even jammed with the band at a friend's wedding we were all at. He can definitely play. He expressed a deep hatred for Fogerty several times.
     
  9. mc5nrg

    mc5nrg Member

    Messages:
    8,978
    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2004
    Location:
    DC, Philly, Asquared, Upper Michigan
    Note that the Kustom amp model numbers were twice the output.
     
  10. brain-eating amoeba

    brain-eating amoeba Member

    Messages:
    78
    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2019
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Great studios have the added advantage of producers/engineers, multiple takes/tracks, Neve consoles, Urei compressors, live echo chambers etc.
     
  11. rollyfoster

    rollyfoster Silver Supporting Member

    Messages:
    13,459
    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2006
    True. However, more often than not (and by a large margin now that I think about it) I personally tend to prefer live guitar tones, especially from that era of music.

    Sometimes it’s close I and can go either way because there are certainly studio tones I love but they tend to have great live tone as well.

    CCR’s live sound is glaringly bad to my ears, especially compared to their peers so it stands out to me as leaning heavily in that direction. I’m not sure there’s another band I purposely avoid in a live context unless it’s just a terrible recording or performance.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
    Average Joe likes this.
  12. erksin

    erksin Member

    Messages:
    23,101
    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2004
    I talked with John once about some of the gear he used back then and he said that he used a brown Fender Concert on a lot of their albums. He said he still has it and it’s the amp he plays through at home.
     
    Flogger59 and rollyfoster like this.
  13. brain-eating amoeba

    brain-eating amoeba Member

    Messages:
    78
    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2019
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I can't disagree with that--however, are you speaking of John Fogerty's live sound? I don't think the original CCR has played a live gig together in a number of years. Fogerty missed the mark live, imho. Though he is a great talent...
     
  14. PRW

    PRW Member

    Messages:
    1,419
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2011
    Here's a blurb from a Rolling Stone interview from a few years ago where John is talking about things, right after his book was released ...

    As I read the book, I kept thinking about how the band caused you nothing but grief. Do you ever think you would have been better off as a solo artist?
    That’s an interesting question. It’s really funny because I basically formed that band when I was 14 and always thought of myself as a band member, but even when we started I knew I had more music in me than the other guys, including my brother Tom. But by the time I wrote “Proud Mary,” I had evolved, and something quite different started to happen. I knew I had something I didn’t have before. I knew that’s where good stuff would be created, like Lennon/McCartney, Irving Berlin, Leiber and Stoller or today somebody like Bruce [Springsteen] or, of course, Bob Dylan. I knew I was inside that place, wherever that was, where those people created that stuff. I very much felt that the other guys in the band weren’t there, but even at that point I still felt like part of the team.

    Were they of any benefit to you?
    Yeah, I think so. What you’re getting is that all those personalities were so difficult for me. We never really had a manager, and I think those people were unmanageable. They had a real problem with taking direction. Let’s say I was in a band with John Lennon before I wrote “Have You Ever Seen the Rain.” I think I would have pretty much followed him.

    Sure, but can’t you see it from their perspective? They resented being in a band where they didn’t feel important.
    I look back now and see that, yeah. I didn’t understand it then. We didn’t think of ourselves as a business, but nowadays because of Google and other things, there are so many young entrepreneurs who are basically just kids coming up with these monumental businesses. That is kind of what we did. It was a band, but let’s say you were on a team that had invented Google or whatever; you had envisioned something and gotten it done. I just thought it was good for all of us. I didn’t understand.

    There is one scene I talk about in the book where [my brother] Tom is angry about “Green River” or angry with me. He said to me, “You’re getting quite a repertoire.” That wasn’t a compliment or praise, but I didn’t understand what was going on

    He said years later that as your big brother, he wanted to lead you, not the other way around.
    It seemed so. Years later, [my wife] Julie said to me, “John, they’re just jealous of you.” I didn’t harbor those feelings, so I really didn’t have any clue why it was getting so tense.

    You write so many negative things about surviving Creedence members Doug Clifford and Stu Cook in the book. I’m curious, what’s the kindest thing you can say about them right now?
    You have to go back to when we were kids. Way back then, I liked Doug’s energy. He was full of energy all the time. And the thing about Stu is that he’s pretty intelligent, and that seemed to be a strong quality.

    But since your childhood, no real grounds for praise?
    What you have to understand is that even though I’m the guy in that band who wrote, produced and arranged all the songs, and therefore really brought them success, and Saul Zaentz was the guy who robbed us and owned all of our music and treated us pretty badly, somehow they flipped that on its head over the years, and now I’m the bad guy. Over the years, Tom, Doug and Stu would would quote Saul as if he was giving them good information and I was the crook, as if I ruined their lives somehow.
     
  15. rollyfoster

    rollyfoster Silver Supporting Member

    Messages:
    13,459
    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2006
    I’m talking about the old recordings from when they were together. I don’t listen to current Fogerty because I’m not a fan of the way Kenny Aronoff plays his music.
     
    chumley likes this.
  16. griggsterr

    griggsterr Supporting Member

    Messages:
    6,041
    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2014
    Location:
    Midwest
    I was a pretty good friend to Bud Ross. The inventor/owner of Kustom amps. CCR was his best endorsee band. Whatever they wanted he would give them. Fogerty gave him one of their gold records. At one time Bud had his own private plane and owned Slingerland and Goya. Ike and Tina, The Guess Who, CCR, Stevie Wonder, Canned heat. were just a few of his endorsees.
     
    wgs1230, Kingofdogs1950 and erksin like this.
  17. oldmanrockin

    oldmanrockin Member

    Messages:
    166
    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2014
    I really think if not for John/CCR i am not sure i would have pursued guitar. The first two concerts i ever went to were CCR wthout Tom. I spent my teen age years trying to duplicate his sound. I had a Kustom 100 watt with 2x12's, i wore flannel shirts, i bought fake black les pauls (Electra's because i couldn't afford real ones). I spent 20 years trying to play bad moon rising correctly, only to find out he tuned down a full step and played in E. Some of the best vocals on anyone, at that time, still very good today. Yea, he was a control freak, but he knew what he wanted and he recorded it the way he wanted. I have seen CCR and i have seen CCR revisisted, and John's version sounds way more like the original, than Doug and Stu's. In my mind when its all said and done, he/they will be a big part of that late 60's /early 70's rock and roll for ME anyway.
     
    drlucky likes this.
  18. Rockledge

    Rockledge Member

    Messages:
    5,588
    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Location:
    mars
    They didn't need any.
    Back then the way they calculated chart position was by singles sales, and CCR was so known for having at least 2 high charting singles on each album ( if I am not mistaken Cosmos Factory had 4 charting singles) that people just didn't bother buying the singles, they bought the album instead.
    I am betting they sold a hell of a lot more albums that many of the bands that had hit songs.

    Yep, it is too bad he put them in that situation. It is also a vice-versa situation, it is easy to see why they avoided playing with him too, after they got CCR up and running again they didn't need him. It seems they were having too much fun and success without all the hassles.
     
  19. Rockledge

    Rockledge Member

    Messages:
    5,588
    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Location:
    mars
    It is a shame to see anyone carry bitterness to that extreme and cling to it for so long.

    I strongly suggest not merely reading one side of the story but reading the others input as well.
    Their point of view all seem to jive with each other.
    Also, Mr Zaentz seems to have been a bit tight lipped about the whole situation, but I think it very telling that the other members of the band seemed to not have had any problems with him.
    Something seldom mentioned is that Mr Zaentz was a business man who ran what was mostly a jazz label. He would have been going way out on a limb to give a bunch of kids playing rock music a chance back then. I think he deserved financial rewards for taking on that risk. without him doing so we would have never heard the wonderful talents of those 4 guys.
    I don't remember ever seeing much printed about how much money and time he invested in the band, what with promotion, printing up records, providing studio time, getting them airplay, and all that.
    I think it would be interesting to hear his side of the story, which I don't think he ever bothered to share. Sadly he isn't here to share it now.
    Also, from everthing I have read, the band was originally Tom Fogertys band, and he was the leader. That he let his younger brother front it and write the bulk of the songs was good leadership on his part.
     
    stratadp likes this.
  20. Rockledge

    Rockledge Member

    Messages:
    5,588
    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Location:
    mars
    I think it says a lot for Doug Cliffords talent that a guy who is considered to be one of the most high profile in modern pop music can't seem to get his groove and style down right.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice