How do Black Shadows compare to Vintage 30's?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by abnerfm, Feb 20, 2012.

  1. abnerfm

    abnerfm Member

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    Hi guys. I have 2 amps: a 1966 Fender Band-Master and a 1970 Marshall Super Bass. My amps are running into a 2X12" cab with 2 Celestion Vintage 30's; as the cab provides "only" 120 Watts, I'm affraid of harming the speakers or my 100 Watt Marshall because it's stupidly loud (my amp tech says it provides 100 Watts while CLEAN, but it can get almost the double of it when crancked). So, I've been thinking about changing speakers.

    Yesterday, I've seen a video on YouTube comparing the Vintage 30's to Black Shadows; I don't know if the video makes justice to them, but my impressions were that the Black Shadows were much brighter (although more bassy, too) in an unpleasant way. Is that right? Can the Black Shadows sound smooth in anyway? I cannot afford to buy EV speakers, that's why I'm considering the BS's. Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Guinness Lad

    Guinness Lad Silver Supporting Member

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    A Black Shadow is a Classic Lead 80 speaker. CL80 speakers are flatter than a V30 which has a midrange bump.
     
  3. abnerfm

    abnerfm Member

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    Do they sound good with clean amps?
     
  4. theroan

    theroan Member

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    Very much so. Mesa puts them in all of their open backs, including the Lonestar and TA series.
     
  5. geekocaster

    geekocaster Member

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    i have a black shadow that i use with a roland Jazz chorus head, and it sounded great to my ears. you have to work your EQ to match the speaker type as well as cabinet type.
     
  6. abnerfm

    abnerfm Member

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    Mine is a 2X12" closed back
     
  7. clintb

    clintb Member

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    I have a Mesa 1x12 3/4 back cabinet. It came with a Black Shadow (MC-90) but I replaced it with a Vintage 30. I used to use it with my Gibson Goldtone GA15RV (a 15-watt EL84 amp).

    I think both speakers are bright and kind of harsh on the high end, but the Vintage 30 seems to have a low-mid girth that fills out the tone and balances those highs. I liked the Vintage 30 way better than the Black Shadow in this setup.

    Perhaps you can get WGS Retro 30s. They supposedly sound similar to a Vintage 30 but I noticed they handle 75 watts.

    My personal favorite speaker is the WGS Blackhawk HP. It handles 100 watts. But it is a totally different tone than a Vintage 30 (I actually like it better). It has a great chimey clean tone and a smooth, singing distortion tone. The mids are much more neutral than a Vintage 30, but it has enough upper mids to really sing. They are expensive, but I've bought a couple used ones for $165 and $150 each.
     
  8. nofearfactor

    nofearfactor Member

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    I have a Mesa Express 2x12 cab that is 1/4 open back with 2 Black Shadows in it that I almost never use because I play metal and it seems to me like a cab and speaker you would use to play more stuff like jazz, country, pop, etc. I usually run my Dual Rectifier Solo 3channel head into my Recto 2x12 oversized closed back cab with V-30s in it, besides my Recto 4x12s w/V-30s. So to be able to tell you what the Black Shadows sound like for sure I would have to put them in both of the very different cabs and see what theyre like in both- an open and a closed back cab 2x12. Too much trouble, sorry. But I can run my Dual head into each cab and then tell you what they sound like, but to me it wouldnt be an exact test. Still, I would have to say that the Express cab with the BS's sounds brighter and less bassier to me plus I have to throw less volume at it. But its an open back cab too, so I dont know if its the speakers, or the cab being an open back. Myself between the two cabs I prefer the Recto oversized closed back cab with the V-30s because playing metal I get a darker and bassier sound out of that cab and those speakers, plus I can put more volume to it to get the sounds Im after out of my amp. Sorry I wasnt much help.
     
  9. abnerfm

    abnerfm Member

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    Anyone else would like to share opinions?
     
  10. solitaire

    solitaire Senior Member

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    If you can't afford EVs then perhaps the Eminence Delta or Fane Colossus? Weber Michigan?
     
  11. abnerfm

    abnerfm Member

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    I've considered the Eminence Delta Pro, but it seems like it's frequencie range is too low? I mean, I don't want a speaker to hide my amps presence... have you ever tried the Eminence? They are going for US$85 at Avatar Speakers...:huh
     
  12. Norjef

    Norjef Member

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    Emmy Delta Pro 12A sounds closer to EV than any other and WAY cheaper - I love 'em.
    The advertised specs seem like they wouldn't be sparkley, but they have plenty o'highs.
     
  13. abnerfm

    abnerfm Member

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    How is your rig?
     
  14. abnerfm

    abnerfm Member

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    Went to a friend's house today and tried my 2x12" cab (closed back) with V30's, then tried his 4X12" cab loaded with 2 Black Shadows and 2 EV's (the EV's were off). Huge difference on the very first note: the Black Shadow seems to have more bass and clarity, although a little "stiffer", at least to my ears... I think I'm going to get them... and I hope they sound good with my amps/guitars, BTW very different from my friend's rig... I hope they love my Band-Master. Anyway, now I have an idea of how different they sound.
     
  15. jpage

    jpage Silver Supporting Member

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    The Delta Pro is an incredible guitar speaker--in no way shape or form does it hide an amp's presence. It does the opposite.

    I also love Black Shadows--the earlier ones a little more than the modern version. Seem a bit "punchier". There are very few amps I like V30s through.
     
  16. abnerfm

    abnerfm Member

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    Have you ever had the chance to compare it with an EV? How "close" it sounds to an EV?
     
  17. midnightlaundry

    midnightlaundry Member

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    MC90's are more balanced. They have a G12K-85 sticker on them.
     
  18. jpage

    jpage Silver Supporting Member

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    Tough to say because I've never a/b'd them. I found the EVs I've played to be a bit brighter, which is pretty bright because I consider the DPs a bright speaker. Not sure about any "frequency chart" as I wouldn't know what I was looking at if I saw one, but I have tried the DPs with a ton of amps and they always sound great to me. Actually I think Rich at Fuchs is the one that turned me on to them.
     
  19. solitaire

    solitaire Senior Member

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    [​IMG]

    Not very unlike a JBL 120F:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2012
  20. dbeeman

    dbeeman Gold Supporting Member

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    Eminence Delta Pro

    [​IMG]

    Vintage 30

    [​IMG]
     

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