How do you get feedback if the amp is under the stage?

Discussion in 'Guitars in General' started by lukeness, Jan 24, 2008.


  1. lukeness

    lukeness Member

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    I'm thinking about running an amp under the stage in order to lessen the noise on stage... but I'm wondering how you would get that lovely controllable feedback from this set up? Are there any tips or tricks or pedals or whatever to acheive it?

    Oh, and I don't play super high gain metal or anything. Right now, I can get that nice feedback with my clean channel and Fulldrive on.
     
  2. sumlin

    sumlin Member

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    Take it out from under the stage.
     
  3. Zero

    Zero Member

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    If it's loud enough in your monitor it shouldn't be a problem.
     
  4. lukeness

    lukeness Member

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    Thing is, we're all in an Aviom In-Ear-Monitor set up... wouldn't have it anyother way. I have a pretty sweet set up where I play... but I'm a sound man too so I'm always trying to find the best experience for the audience and for tone freak guitarists like me. We haven't moved the amps under the stage yet, but it's an idea I've been thinking about for a while now.

    How do the pros do it? A lot of times I see them with no amps on stage or amps extra far away... and of course they're in IEMs.
     
  5. Antero

    Antero Member

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    Alternately, you could go under the stage yourself.
     
  6. betterdays

    betterdays Member

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    Elevator that goes under the stage. Maybe an escalator.
     
  7. jeffwith1f

    jeffwith1f Member

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    you could run a smaller extention cab up to the the stage side. somewhere out of the way for other people, but that you could coax feedback out of if you approach it. Definately raise it up to pickup level. mark the sweet spot on stage with some tape.
     
  8. lukeness

    lukeness Member

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    Thanks for this advice... this is actually how I have it set up at the moment. I guess there really is no way to do it other than this. Thanks again.

    And to the ones with useless comments, thanks for the replies, but they were still useless.
     
  9. Tonefish

    Tonefish Member

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    under a stage you may lose a lot more than noise.....like highs...and definition?

    Seems like an odd approach....IMHO
     
  10. Drew68

    Drew68 Supporting Member

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    Nah, useless comments (like this one) bump the thread!

    ...and they gave me a nice chuckle.
     
  11. lukeness

    lukeness Member

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    Sorry, I didn't explain the scenario properly... this is very true if the sound source is soley dependent on the guitar amp on the stage. But in my case, everything is mic'd and runs off a pretty kick-arse sound system. So the point is to isolate the sound of the amp under the stage, so that it won't bleed into the mix with the house speakers. Another added bonus to isolating it is that I can run the amp super hot without making peoples ears fall off.

    Our whole band uses IEMs except a couple singers that use floor wedges. This improves the FOH mix tremendously. As a sound guy, I'm always trying to find ways to improve the overall sound quality of the performance, and one way is to lessen the sound bleed from the actual stage... including guitar amps. BUT I'm also an electric guitarist that craves the interaction of the amp and guitar being close to each other... so this is why I'm asking about this question.
     
  12. cochese

    cochese Member

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    lukeness here's the deal. What you are doing is pretty much the way things are going on Broadway where I play a number of shows. The majority of guitarists I know pretty much hate this approach. It makes it great for the soundman but you are basically castrating the electric guitar because it is a two part instrument and the response of it greatly depends on the interaction of the guitar and speakers.

    When I played for the Billy Joel musical Movin' Out they used this approach. They had Marshall plexis cranked in the basement in iso boxes and the guitarists used in-ears. For a particular song in the show the guitarists was required to get feedback. To do this his signal was routed to a small Fender Pro Junior cranked on stage. there was a switch to turn it on and off. You pretty much have to be close to a speaker. Even coming through the PA at a good volume will probably not enable you to get feedback unless your guitar is really high in the mix and even at that you will probably not have much control over it.

    Not to dis what you are doing but I really hate the Aviom system. We use those little mixers for most shows and listen with Sony 7506 headphones, iso-phones or in-ears. I usually go the 7506 route and wear earplugs as well. I just find the sound of a mic'd guitar like that in a live situation never sounds the way I get it in the studio. Whatever you are comfortable with. One word of caution and this comes from several audiologists. In-ears can be just as damaging to your hearing as wearing no earplugs can. You should really have a limiter on the system and take care not to monitor too loudly as the drivers in the phones are sealed against your eardrum and will cause damage. I can't tell you how many guys I know with hearing loss. One drummer I worked with on the road blew out several pairs of the Sony 7506 phones by monitoring too loudly.

    As for having more sound control as far as the guitar is concerned I use plexi-glass baffles in front of my guitar speaker even for small gigs. It allows me to get a bigger tone without the sound beaming at the audience. In the grand scheme of things it's the drummer that usually sets the volume of the band. We use plex-glass around him as well.
     
  13. FFTT

    FFTT Member

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    cochese

    Him speak the truth!
     
  14. lukeness

    lukeness Member

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    This is a GREAT response. Thank you!

    The Fender Pro Jr idea is BRILLIANT! Perhaps it'll be the same concept with a powered monitor on stage. Very very nice.

    The stage I play on is pretty large but not large enough that the drummer can go without a shield. The dimensions are approx... 15-20ft deep and about 50-60ft wide. The room is pretty large and can fit about 500 people sitting down. So these dimensions are just on the threshold where I can turn up the amp to my liking, but is just BARELY too loud for the audience to handle. When I turn it down just a bit, then the feedback interaction kind of disappears... and is not as easy to coax out. Cocking a wah up half way helps when I want that feedback sustain, but still... isolating the amp would be best in the grand scheme of things cos I want to run the amps HOT.

    The Aviom system isn't a cure all... but it works really well once you get to know it. A little knowledge of mixing goes a long way with it. I used Shure E3s or E5s and they work great. Without it, I'd go deaf in a few years. Our drummer is a pro and hits pretty dang hard... after years of listening to those rim shots with my naked ears, the Aviom was a God-send. But to each his own. Ideally, I would like to be on a stage large enough that would have good sound seperation and disbursement, but hey... some people don't even get to play on stages.

    Anyhow, your reply got all the wheels in my head turning. Thank you so much.
     
  15. HeeHaw

    HeeHaw Member

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    I feel your pain with the IEM's. We went to them last year and finally got an additional board for the stage just to mix them. Our amps went under the stage and we the guitar players all became disgruntled. In the end we just lived with it.
     
  16. cochese

    cochese Member

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    Glad to be of help. To me the drums have always dictated the volume of the band. I've always worn earplugs and to this day i can't play next to a live drummer without them. Don't discount the baffles for guitar though. They really work. The trouble with electric guitar cabs is that they really beam. This is why a bass guitarist can play so much louder than a guitarist and not hurt anyones ears. We play in one restaurant where the stage is about a foot high and they seat people directly in front of us. I usually put the plexiglass baffle behind my vocal wedge in line with my speaker cab. I can still turn up the amp to my comfort zone and the people sitting in front of us don't have to put their fingers in their ears or scream at each other. Of course being in a fairly large room with a high ceiling helps.
     
  17. Taller

    Taller Silver Supporting Member

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  18. ARch

    ARch Member

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    A lot of the folks around here set their amp to the back of the stage and turn it around when using the AVIOMs. It really doesn't look like strange, and you don't beam out the first 10 rows.
     
  19. RDM

    RDM Senior Member

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    Why do something like that that's not even entertaining? Now....if you were to repell down the side of the stage....THAT would be cool...
     
  20. flyingvees

    flyingvees Member

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    Go nuge on them and kill something too.....:dude
     

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