How do you make your BOSS pedals NOT suck tone?

Discussion in 'Effects, Pedals, Strings & Things' started by lukeness, Aug 2, 2006.

  1. lukeness

    lukeness Member

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    Here's my pedal board:

    - Ernie Ball Volume
    - Morley Tremonti Wah (true bypass)
    - Fulldrive 2 (true bypass)
    - Boss DS1
    - Boss Tremolo
    - Ibanez Phaser
    - Line6 DL4 (true bypass)
    - EH Holy Grail Reverb (true bypass)

    My guitar signal sounds noticably thinner when I have this set up. As soon as I take the Boss and Ibanez pedal out of the chain, my tone thickens up.

    Now I've seen many of your pedal boards, and many people use Boss pedals... even the Greats use Boss and other non-true-bypass pedals. My question is.. how do you deal with it? BTW, it sounds thin even when the pedals are turned off.

    Is getting a true bypass Loop-Master the only way around it? That means more money on George L cables too.
     
  2. Frethog

    Frethog Member

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    Keep 'em in a drawer.

    Pretty much.
     
  3. lukeness

    lukeness Member

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    Another specific question I have is... does the fact that there are three of them in a row make the tone-sucking worse? Or will just having one be just as bad?

    I know I should try this on my own, but I don't have access to my board till the weekend, and I can't stop thinking about it.
     
  4. Angle Loss

    Angle Loss Supporting Member

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    Your tone sounds so "fat" without them because your EB volume pedal at the beginning of your chain is sucking treble of your signal. The boss pedals are merely restoring it back, causing you to hear "thinness" because there is more treble content in your rig. Its ok to like the tone without the boss pedals better (just use a tb loop), but realize it is not the boss stuff jacking with your original tone--it is your regular signal path.

    I hope this helps,
    Chris
     
  5. RUSHFANnLV

    RUSHFANnLV Member

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    HAHAHAHAHAH! :AOK

    Exactly.
     
  6. Rid

    Rid Senior Member

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    +1 on both above!
     
  7. Angle Loss

    Angle Loss Supporting Member

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    If you are unhappy with your sound, turning it up is just going to make it sound bad--but louder. I agree that too many myths are perpetuated here, and that's why I personally like to debunk them. I enjoy -playing- my guitar as I'm sure Lukeness does as well. It sounds all nice and well to say "shut up and play your guitar" but that is not what a forum like this is for. I don't come on here to share what a great experience playing at gig is like--its redundant. We come here to share info on shaping our sound, so that we forget about the gear and truly play with carefree enjoyment of your musical instrument.
     
  8. nashvillesteve

    nashvillesteve Member

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    A buffer or booster up front may help you as well.
     
  9. musickbox

    musickbox Supporting Member

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    Make sure it's not first in the chain. I hear a difference when I use to put my tuner in front. When I got my Ernie ball VP, I used the tuner out. It's fine now. I still have a RV-3 in the chain and it doesn't make a difference. Especially now that I got george l's through my board. Good cables and right placement will be all you need. Plus you never hear the difference live. For recording I use guitar straight to amp or use one (or group) effect at a time. I hope that helps. I have heard thousands of arguments, this is from experience and what has worked for me.
     
  10. lukeness

    lukeness Member

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    It's the Ernie Ball Volume that's the problem? Wow. Never thought of that. Hmmm... I'm gonna have to try that one out.

    If it means anything... the volume is always on 10 on the pedal. I only have the volume pedal to do swells and to mute. My guitar Vol control is almost always on 10 as well.

    Interesting... so it's NOT the boss pedals.

    Oh and I never use the tuner out on the Vol pedal, cos I noticed it sounds really different with a tuner plugged in. I use it to tune, then unplug it to play.
     
  11. musickbox

    musickbox Supporting Member

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    No no, VP is fine. I just meant I use my set up like this.

    New way - Ernie ball - tuner out goes to Boss tu-2
    output goes to a Barber tone press
    Old way - Boss tu-2 -> Barber tone press

    When I had it the old way I lost some sound. Now with the ernie ball being first there is no problem. The first pedal in your chain will make the biggest difference. I think your ibanez might be the biggest culprit. Might be wrong. Do it the old fashion way. Start with one pedal and keep adding on. See where you start to hear a difference.
     
  12. Angle Loss

    Angle Loss Supporting Member

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    The most important advice: use your ears, do what sounds best to YOU.

    musickbox likes a his volume pedal up front (works for him-no problem), but I found having a volume pedal first drained a tiny bit of treble because even when it is on "10"-full volume, your guitar signal is tied to ground via the 250k or 500k pot in the pedal. Having a Boss pedal (which it buffered) or any other buffer/buffered pedal lessens the treble reducing effect caused by the volume pedal. The Boss/buffered pedals change the signal to low impedence which is good because it counters treble loss in long cable runs or things like volume pedals. I would be willing to bet that even if you kept the same pedals set up, and moved the volume pedal to be after the DS-1 there would be a difference in sound when they are all bypassed.

    The important thing to get from this is to experiment with to find what you like best (the opinions vary-even between myself and musickbox). Regardless of opinions of what sounds better to us, I've given you the electronical explanation of what is happening so you can play with what sounds best. Good luck!

    edit: try to see what is subjective (opinion about tones) and objective (the electronical explanations about what is happening) written in all these posts.
     
  13. musickbox

    musickbox Supporting Member

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    Well put Angle loss.
     
  14. lukeness

    lukeness Member

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    Thanks everyone. I'm gonna try all the possibilities before I cave and buy a loop-master and more cables.
     
  15. yZe

    yZe Senior Member

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    Yup, jack it w/ a Seymour duncan pickup booster through the front end
     
  16. ptdesign

    ptdesign Handmade sonic art

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    I changed the input cap in my Boss BD-2 to a .1uf met film cap and now there is no tone suck. I stopped useing a looper for it. It sounds great. This is because even in bypass your signal runs through the circuit. Thanks Mr. Keeley
     
  17. dosmun

    dosmun Member

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    The Tuner going out of the "tuner out" will cause tone loss
     
  18. homerayvaughan

    homerayvaughan Member

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    I would say it's the volume pedal that's the problem as well. I can't stand them (volume pedals in general). Worse than any wha for sucking tone. I tried a few and found that they all suck tone, just by themselves. Do a test and try each pedal alone and see which ones you notice the biggest problem with.

    I have never had a problem with boss pedals sucking that much tone.
     
  19. Allthumbs56

    Allthumbs56 Member

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    My last pedalboard "iteration" was terrible for some reason. I had made some changes to fit in a few new things and rearrange some others but picked up some serious hum and tone loss in the process. It was worse than any version I'd had before (bear in mind that it's all pretty pedestrian stuff, wall warts, a mix of my own cabling and cheaper molded ones - but the fact is I'd never had an issue with it before).

    Anyway, I've just finished changing things up and once again it sounds great - no hum, no appreciable tone loss. I removed a Rat II, a BD-2, an Ibanez DL-10, a Route 66, and an H20. I added in a BB preamp, a DM-3, and a CE-2 (and moved my TU-2 from the first position to the last.

    It now goes: Bad Horsie > TS-9 > BB > OD-3 > TU-2 > DC-5 (amp), Effect Send > PS-5 > Triboost > CE-2 > DD-5 > DM-3 > Return.

    Like I said - pretty pedestrian stuff. But it sounds a whole lot better than it did before.

    And I don't know why :confused: but it do.


    _________
    Chris
     
  20. Curt

    Curt Member

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    Prince could easily afford any gear he wants. He uses Boss pedals.
    What do you think....are they sucking his tone?
    His tone sound pretty suck free to me.
     

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