how drastic of a change does a speaker make?

H

hithere

Member
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433
hey guys, like always you always help me out, through a lot of my repetitive questions.

Anyway I have been playing various fender blackface amps for the last 4 years, and ever since my drive sound has been a struggle.

The cleans are wonderful, but my current princeton reverb is a real struggle to get a pleasing drive sound out of, especially with single coils.

Ever since I played a tiny terror at the store, I have been thinking its time for me to start spending my money on some brit amps, hell I started on a marshall mg!

as you guys have probably heard me say a million times I love ryan adams tone, and was about to spend the money on a tone tubby alnico speaker, and though I know it will darken the amp, I still prefer his humbucker tone to his strat tone. Which is definitely just more of a circuit thing.

anyway I am thinking about possibly picking up a 2x12 orange instead,

I got my eyes on an ac 30/orange tiny terror/ad30tc/ and a marshall for the future.

so I am thinking perhaps it's time to stop spending money on something that's not working out for me.

ps. I know pete townshend uses v30s (like the orange cab) in his fender amp, perhaps the princeton may sound interesting through some v30s?
 
zoooombiex

zoooombiex

Member
Messages
2,548
very drastic. i was very surprised when I learned that for myself. that said you can also chase your tail in circles with all the options out there.

as to the tone tubby, the new stuff is not dark. only the early runs were dark (or ones special ordered to be that way). IMO they work very will with Fender amps.
 
Steve73

Steve73

Member
Messages
5,097
Yeah, probably the most drastic change you can make to an amp, more than tubes for sure IME. I think an extension cab with a Princeton would be a great way to make it 'bigger' or a more pleasing drive tone. Maybe Blues or G12H30's?
 
xntrick

xntrick

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Messages
3,715
made a HUGE difference when i upgraded the stock speaker in my TM60 to a wizard, it made the 2nd channel(dirt) come alive in a big way...
 
Aslan

Aslan

Member
Messages
2,702
xntrick speaks the truth!
I upgraded my Trademark 60 with a Wizard also and the difference was amazing, it made a good amp into a great amp! Speakers really do make a significant difference.
 
rob2001

rob2001

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16,927
I wouldn't use the word drastic but there's a noticeable difference for sure. More than tubes, about as noticeable as a pickup swap.....all things being equal. Cabs make a big difference too.
 
D

Dave

Member
Messages
3,549
Definitely drastic. Just check out the YouTube video posted above. I've owned just about every 12" guitar speaker ever made at one point or another, trust me, HUGE differences.
hithere said:
ps. I know pete townshend uses v30s (like the orange cab) in his fender amp, perhaps the princeton may sound interesting through some v30s?
Click to expand...
The V30 is actually a really good choice for a BF Fender IMO. Your cleans won't be as chimey, but OD will sound so much better. It's a compromise. The V30 records amazingly well too, which is what I really like about it.
 
ezyrydr

ezyrydr

Member
Messages
953
Changing the speaker will make a big difference. You mentioned Ryan Adams, his princeton has hemp speakers in it. I recently put a Cannabis Rex in my Ampeg J20 and it made a world of difference. It was MUCH louder and the distortion was so so much better.
Also, if you're tryin to play that princeton with a band you should run it through another [bigger] cab so you're pushing more air.

Sometimes I wonder how Ryan Adams can get such a kick ass tone out of those princetons. In the studio it's just the Princeton but live he uses multiple Princetons and multiple vibroking cabs all with the hemp speakers.
Ryan's sound is a result of his old humbuckers in his Gibson (low output PAFs), a boost and a drive and then the amp(s). Right now he's using Telenordia pedals but he's used fulltone fat boost, OCD and Blues Drivers before. He also uses a lot of reverb and delay occasionally. With humbuckers and pedals the stock speaker in a PRRI will just get farty and it just can't handle that input very well. I would put a speaker in there that's rated for higher wattage or get a separate cab. If you go Alnico get one with a pretty high wattage rating because those can get fizzy when you push them too hard. A V30 is an OK option and worth a shot for sure. Plug that princeton into another cab and it'll be like night and day.
 
K

kelly dell

Member
Messages
284
The Weber Speaker I put in my DRRI was like NIGHT AND DAY!
I thought Weber was just another speaker like the hundreds I have went thru in the past, with very small diffrences in tone.

But... This Weber 8 ohm 25 watt F150 with "B" style cone and light dope is the most incredibly well rounded speaker I have ever heard.
Super cleans and wicked overdriven sounds. The speaker sounds like its been broken in for hundreds of hours BRAND NEW.

Worth the hundred dollars i paid for it BIG TIME!:bow
 
soundchaser59

soundchaser59

Thank You Great Spirit!
Gold Supporting Member
Messages
12,881
rob2001 said:
I wouldn't use the word drastic but there's a noticeable difference for sure. More than tubes, about as noticeable as a pickup swap.....all things being equal. Cabs make a big difference too.
Click to expand...

EXACTLY what I would have said.......

imo, Fender (the real ones, expecially the BF amps) and Tone Tubby are perfectly mated for each other. I'd be careful with the alnico stuff though, I think it's harder to dial in than the ceramics. The Tone Tubby Superboy (10 or 15) is a real sleeper, absolutely gorgeous sound......Weber Texas is another great one for that sound. But I haven't found anything that sounds better with real Fenders than TT's......OD is harder to get just right with alnico, and keep in mind the Tubby's will need a LOT more breakin than any other speaker.
 
H

hithere

Member
Messages
433
last night I was playing my strat into my princeton on 2 or 3, (completely clean)

and man It was wonderful. But I really think it's time to move to some different amps.

I really don't like how pedals have ever been taken through any of my fenders (drive pedals that is) to me they have always been fizzy.

sure with my twin reverb I can get away with useable sounds, I had some nice drive pedals, but it doesn't feel natural or inspire me.

I was watching some pro shop guitar demos last night

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1aiHbDhhMc

I really don't care for the the drive sound of the princeton even with someone else playing, or even the deluxe it seems.

I love fenders, and the other day I got to play through a DRRI really quick with a les paul and it seemed to be a little different and smoother breakup wise, but this may be more of a circuit thing and less of a speaker thing.
 
S

StratTone

Member
Messages
959
hithere said:
hey guys, like always you always help me out, through a lot of my repetitive questions.

Anyway I have been playing various fender blackface amps for the last 4 years, and ever since my drive sound has been a struggle.

The cleans are wonderful, but my current princeton reverb is a real struggle to get a pleasing drive sound out of, especially with single coils.

Ever since I played a tiny terror at the store, I have been thinking its time for me to start spending my money on some brit amps, hell I started on a marshall mg!

as you guys have probably heard me say a million times I love ryan adams tone, and was about to spend the money on a tone tubby alnico speaker, and though I know it will darken the amp, I still prefer his humbucker tone to his strat tone. Which is definitely just more of a circuit thing.

anyway I am thinking about possibly picking up a 2x12 orange instead,

I got my eyes on an ac 30/orange tiny terror/ad30tc/ and a marshall for the future.

so I am thinking perhaps it's time to stop spending money on something that's not working out for me.

ps. I know pete townshend uses v30s (like the orange cab) in his fender amp, perhaps the princeton may sound interesting through some v30s?
Click to expand...

To me the biggest change in tone will come from a speaker change. Some will say the OT makes the biggest change but like I said "to me" the speaker makes the biggest difference.
 
Gnarlly

Gnarlly

Member
Messages
2,862
Huge difference (like pickup swaps in a guitar). A good speaker can make a crappy amp sound great, and a bad speaker can make a great amp sound crappy.
 
mbratch

mbratch

Member
Messages
2,379
There was a list posted on a thread at TGP awhile back listing, in order, the items that singularly have biggest impact on tone. IIRC, speaker was at the top. Cabinet and OT were certainly up there. Tubes, of course, but not as much as people think relative to other items.
 
mad dog

mad dog

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
10,998
Hi there:

Speakers can make a huge difference. But sounds like maybe you should be trying out some tweeds or equivalent. Have you tried the lo-power tweed twin? That might be just the ticket.
MD
 
H

hithere

Member
Messages
433
I am actually pretty confused as I am starting to think that my particular single coil guitars might be the cause for a lot of my turmoil, I played through a marshall dsl 50 that my friend just got to day, excited it would fix my tele sound, but alas it didnt.

I am going to bargain the bigger problem is my other guitars.

I can't tell you how many drive pedals I sold because I thought it just didn't handle single coil guitars well. Now getting pure amp drive I can see it's my guitars. Going to have to investigate that.

artcore works fine.

even with my princeton the artcore is the least of my problems
 
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