How many of you have found this to be true

whiteop

Senior Member
Messages
2,987
spent tons of money on boutique pedals only to find out they don't really sound much better than your cheap old Boss DS-1's, SD-1's, tubescreamers, or Rats? Seems like a ton of bootique pedals out there are based on these basic circuits from what I can tell.

Anyone else made some of the same observations?

Having said that I went ahead and ordered a Wilson Effects Double Lotus II last night ...;)
 

mesfigas

Member
Messages
238
Its true that most of the vintage pedals sounds perfect and makes you wanna play...this is the secret aka mojo in a pedal.

but boutique pedals like mad professor or other pedals are really good pedals
compared to vintage one

the problem is that i cannot find any other original 80's or 90's pedal

back in the 80's they used perfect sounding materials for our effects
and today's materials seems not to sound so good or you have to pay 300 or more euros for a good pedal

for an example new MXR phase 90 Doesnt sound good compared to and old one same thing goes for delays like deluxe memory man and other pedals.
 

toescantalk

Member
Messages
24
No, I don't agree.

Boss etc. can do some things well but, whilst, not playing every pedal ever made, wouldn't want to swap my more expensive compressor, reverb or analog delay pedals. You also get a specialised and, in some cases, more flexibile sounding pedals from "boutique" suppliers - which answer some needs (probably more wants) I have as a guitarist.

But I'm a big EHX user too though which aren't any more expensive than Boss.
 

Agreed

Member
Messages
1,647
Electrons have no idea how much things cost. We definitely hear with our eyes and wallets as much as anything else. We are psychologically complex and our valuation process is multifaceted. Plus, our hearing isn't all that great, and our sense memory is absolutely abysmal unless we're especially unique among the population.

Trying to overcome those factors to listen objectively is practically impossible, you're better off just enjoying your gear. It's not like there's a toneoscope out there that can tell you "nope, sorry, that pedal definitely sounds better than this one, conclusively and objectively." :)

I say this as someone who actually tries really, really hard to listen and experience the sound analytically. It takes so much focus and effort and at the end of the day, I still have to acknowledge my prejudices if I expect to be taken seriously. I do my best to be as thorough in my descriptions as possible, without relying on "sound character" words which mean things only to me. I try to provide clips to demonstrate things that I find particularly noteworthy. But, we're all human. It's good to be human. We can enjoy things, I can tell you from experience that we can enjoy things even when we're doing our best to be analytical and, within the extent of possibility, objective. ;)

For example... I have a Digitech Hot Head coming in the mail tomorrow. I'm as excited for it as I am for whenever my name eventually comes up on the Openhaus list. Every sufficiently unique device has interesting things about it. It's not just curiosity but a great deal of respect for designs that powers my own taste for variety. Outright clones are awfully boring, but even relatively small changes can affect relatively big differences to circuits. I don't like it when people advertise something as totally awesome and new and unique and then it turns out to be a reiteration of a familiar circuit, but so long as no attempt is made to mislead, I enjoy the differences between two takes/approaches to the same basic idea.
 

jhumber

Member
Messages
1,418
Electrons have no idea how much things cost. We definitely hear with our eyes and wallets as much as anything else. We are psychologically complex and our valuation process is multifaceted. Plus, our hearing isn't all that great, and our sense memory is absolutely abysmal unless we're especially unique among the population.

Trying to overcome those factors to listen objectively is practically impossible, you're better off just enjoying your gear. It's not like there's a toneoscope out there that can tell you "nope, sorry, that pedal definitely sounds better than this one, conclusively and objectively." :)
Those two paragraphs are among the best I've read on any guitar forum. They should be pasted into every 'which pedal is better?' thread :)
 

Mozart82

Member
Messages
114
i once bought a Klon....sold it for way more...

cause i found out that my Bad Monkey sounds much better and covers all the Klon sounds...!
 

Alard

Member
Messages
124
Electrons have no idea how much things cost. We definitely hear with our eyes and wallets as much as anything else. We are psychologically complex and our valuation process is multifaceted. Plus, our hearing isn't all that great, and our sense memory is absolutely abysmal unless we're especially unique among the population.

Trying to overcome those factors to listen objectively is practically impossible, you're better off just enjoying your gear. It's not like there's a toneoscope out there that can tell you "nope, sorry, that pedal definitely sounds better than this one, conclusively and objectively." :)
Stop making sense, how's anyone supposed to make any money?

I've had very similar thoughts and considered posting them many times, but refrained, mostly because of the difficulty in expressing them succinctly.

Couldn't have said it better. Now run away!
 

bsic

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,122
Seems like a ton of bootique pedals out there are based on these basic circuits from what I can tell.
\

All cars are based on the Ford Model T, but I think we can say they are night and day different in almost every way.

I notice that high end pedals typically do address deficiencies in "old school" pedals. Remember, the old pedals were discontinued... for a reason.
 

fishlog

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,989
I have recently come around to this way of thinking too. The pedal that started it all for me was the $30 dollar MXR Classic Overdrive. Feels good knowing I don't have a $1000 dollars worth of little metal boxes sitting that I have to keep watch over all the time now.
 

voorhiessa

Senior Member
Messages
6,489
at home, maybe not true, but in an actual band, at an actual gig........seems to always be true.
 

jb's 52

Member
Messages
546
What got me was seeing Prince with regular Boss pedals and killing it!! Not sure if they
were modded or not but I think if you got it, you got it and if you don't, no amount of
$$$$ spent (on equipment) is gonna get it for you.
 

modernage

Member
Messages
27
All cars are based on the Ford Model T, but I think we can say they are night and day different in almost every way.

I notice that high end pedals typically do address deficiencies in "old school" pedals. Remember, the old pedals were discontinued... for a reason.
Yeah. That may be true in some cases, but not all. There have been situations dealing with scarcity of certain component causing in rising of production costs (especially w/ transistors and IC's), or moving on from a line in favor of newer/exciting technology, or to have the ability to offer more features.

I'm sure most people would prefer the Boss DM-2 over the analog mode on the Boss DD-20, but alas the DD-20 will win in most cases due to features.

I will say that I do agree with you. After all, you don't see a lot of Digitech Grunge pedals on boards around here. ;)
 

ES330

Member
Messages
5,219
After going thru endless pedals... especially overdrives
I'm gonna say yes to all of the above !!
Some sound way better, others so-so, others not
 

Blues Lyne

Member
Messages
3,465
While some pedals that are labeled "boutique" are built with better parts or address issues that players have found with certain pedals, I think the biggest thing they provide is variety and the ability to find the sound you are looking for. You used to have the choice of Boss, DOD, MXR and maybe a couple other makers that had smaller pedal lines. They sounded good, as long as they made what you were looking for.

The pedals made by small builders don't necessarily sound better, but they offer variety and options. There are now options for all the guys who like Tube Screamers, but wish they had more bass or gain, less mids, etc. They've also offered pedals for those who didn't find what they wanted with the mass produced pedals, or just wanted to sound different than every other guitar player that had a TS-9, DS-1 or SD-1.

The "boutique" pedals don't necessarily cost more because they sound better, they cost more because they are often hand made and made in much smaller quantities. Each builder has to charge enough to make a living and make it worth while to build the pedal. My board had Boss, DOD, and Marshall pedals along side Barber and Kingsley, Menatone and pedals I've built. For me it's all about finding what works for my playing and the tones I want to get, regardless of whether it's mass produced or small builder stuff.
 

RAILhead

(real name is Maury, BTW)
Messages
4,639
This is why I build my own. :D

It's all about preference and flexibility. I find that I like my distortion to sound thus and such a way with these specific guitars, so I tailor my circuit to *broadly* work with my rig. It just so happens that many other people can also use my gear with their rigs, so we're all happy. It's just the nuance of building a custom effect and what that nuance will be amplified by.
 

sick1982

Member
Messages
935
I agree a lot "off the shelve" pedals can sound good. Also, it's what you do or create with it: an over-the-top fuzz is pretty annoying, but sounds great in the right context. You need to be creative.

That said, I rarely settle witch cheaper products for following reasons:
- Annoying buffers or "hardwire" bypass instead of true bypass.
- Unusable tone controls (Boss DS-1 and most Behringer/Cool Cat).
- Limited input signal (DigiTech analog pedal line).
- Undesirable clipping (Artec 8-band EQ and EHX LPB-1).
- Noise (Boss MT-2).
- Unwanted EQ changes (Boss NS-2).
- Build quality (Behringer).

Some of the above is also true for more expensive pedals, but I think most have a lot more versatility and nicer presentation.

Most are based on the same principle, but that means nothing... this is the same for amps and guitars... even cars and girls.

Talking about price, the rule of thumb is: you get what you pay for. Not always, but one thing is sure: you never get more!! If you pay less than what it needs to create a solid product, you are more likely to get less: build quality, cheaper design, research, matching components, quality components, consistency, looks. Which result in signal loss or degradation, interference, reliability issues, lower resale value, bad performance or lower usability.

Most large companies do everything to cut costs and increase profit. People are getting paid for it, so they will do/find whatever they can think of, so they can keep their jobs and/or make promotion.
 




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