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Discussion in 'Playing and Technique' started by DigiPOV, Sep 5, 2018.
MR. Tag to you!
Cool man! Let me remind you, you’re the one that started the thread. If you already knew the answer, why did you ask the question?
A thread like this one would be worthless without @Tag
I totally agree with @dewey decibel , me me me, it's becoming all about me with youtube and social. How many could play fuzz universe? i bet many on this forum (without my shoulder problem me included) could play note for note that track, the point is that i'd never spend few weeks to master that piece simple because i don't like it. I like Paul Gilbert and some of his stuff are cool but not so much to learn that track, it's enough to listen him (once in a very while) and learn by ear some of his ideas. To me it would be more interesting to learn a piece of Andy Timmons and don't think it would be more easy, his vibrato is unique as is Yngwie vibrato.
Yngwie, the only piece i learned note by note ever years ago was far beyond the sun, after that nothing, even when i teach electric i never learn the track, i just read the music and show the fingering .. I'm more interested in "steal" good ideas instead of learn tons of tracks, we are all different, Phil X is a jukebox i could never do that simply because it's not interesting to me.
I come from classical and it's not how you are saying, we master the "standards" because of the music not because they teach you how to compose music or because they teach you how to play everything, if you want to make your music you have to learn composition. I love music because it's never the same, i learned the chaconne years ago because it's a beautiful music not because is one of the most difficult guitar pieces. The difficulties you find in the chaconne or in Bach are different from ex Tarrega or Barrios.
Everyone could, but not everyone can.
I believe many people have an unrealistic outlook on their own abilities, which is why videos/recitals/performances are important.
I "could" play any song ever written. (See how easy that is?)
Actually doing something takes things from "could" to "can".
I don't want to take this personal and for a bet or for good $ i could do that but... Why? personally i don't have instagram or other social, i only have a facebook page but i am lucky if i login 2 time in a year. We are all different and not all of us ar looking for like or thumb up. Paul Gilbert is an amazing guitarist but to me most of his music is boring and in general is boring to me to learn a song note by note.
I’d say not many for a couple reasons. 1. It sounds very difficult to play. 2. It’s instrumental guitar shred music, which was a niche even when it was a thing. In other words, not a very broad appeal. It’s a good example of that genre, and pg is a monster. I thought the intro was compelling. That sound gets old after two minutes, let alone 7.
If you can play it, I’m sure you learned a lot and more power to you. Incredible picking in there.
If I’m picking something to work on for a while it wouldn’t be this, it would be Bach or Charlie Parker or bob berg tunes. I might make a video to see/hear how I’m doing. Then on to the next thing.
You don't have to be a parrot to attain greatness. Not the way your saying.
And how many classical songs do you think malmsteen mastered. He didn't master the 24 caprices. listen to Elliot fisk. Malmsteens schtick didn't come from bach and paganini(small influence, maybe). It came from wanting to out do Blackmore. Yngwie is like Blackmore on meth. Look at his rig and his whole stage getup.
I've heard YJM play bouree in Em and make it sound sh!tty and that's a first or 2nd year song for a classical guitarist.
There's a lot of people that can play to a backing track and can't jam and play with other musicians.
Do you Think Holdsworth or Coltrane would of been who they were spending their time being a musical parrot?
But "gloss over fast picking with legato" does not take away from any player, Paul's specialty is fast mechanical picking. So he writes around that. What if Satch was covering one of his songs? He'd do it in his own way. Satch doesn't really pick fast like Gilbert or MA or someone but he can shred his way, and write better tunes than just about all these guys combined. Plus imo, Satch has so many more colorful styles and good tone. All that is part of being a great guitarist.
I like Paul Gilbert's great picking mechanics, but not so much a fan of his tunes or his tone is always very shrill and treble-y. Just my opinion we all have 'em. ... I just don't get comparing apples and oranges. How boring it'd be for us all to sound the same.
Yngwie is a tops in my book, but he'd have a mess of a time trying to pick Paul Gilbert's alternate picked patterns, because Yngwie doesn't really alternate pick everything. So he'd "gloss" over it in his own way. But OTOH, Paul would have a really hard time doing Yngwie's way and getting that tone/sound and smooth style to his picking.
You seem to only focus on one small thing What about the tunes? Timmons, Satch, Beck they can write killer instrumentals and have their own sound. They are the true teachers. Who cares how fast they can pick a scale?!
Find your own way!
Just ask PG how fast he is when he has to play the changes.
Or how much he cares about speed these days other than being loyal to his fans base.
Or which is harder, writing an amazing melody or zinging through the same 3nps scale he was playing when he was 17.
I agreed with you until this point.
Seem to focus on one small thing? There are many lessons in this song. I have learned a handful of Satch barn burners and those are easy in comparison. The loose timing and largely legato playing makes them easy. Also the excessive Satriani gain (which I usually like) is not the same thing as playing with a sharp and open tone.
If I was to "gloss over" the picked parts of this song with legato, then it wouldn't be a great vehicle for perfecting picking technique. This song especially makes use of picked string skipping arpeggios which I haven't practiced before.
People can do whatever they want, but for this particular song picking it like Paul, having that attack is what communicates what the song is saying. I realize that PGs picking technique is intimidating to the point of people wanting to find another way.
I don't believe that learning to do it exactly like Paul will hurt anyone's creativity or individuality.
Great to see Bob Berg mentioned. One of my absolute favorite players.
I like the whole arrangement, the bass, the drums, and the sparseness of it all.
There are some stylistic cues from 70s prog rock, the tone is very much just a stack with a boost pedal (when the rest of the shred world has moved to a very manicured direct sound.) To me, its like PG is intentionally skipping the 80s aesthetic and the result is retro/modern.
Also the odd time signature has caught my ear and I'm playing with it in my head throughout the day.
So IOW, there are people who enjoy the whole seven minutes of it. Maybe its something you would have had to listen to alot of shred to appreciate what he's doing.
That's cool, it's good to work any and all techniques.. you can make anything into a string skipping exercise, you know. Hell, take the chord progression to Hotel Ca. and do string skipped arps to your heart's content. That'd be a bit creative too and learn a lot more than copying something verbatim. Might even lead to a cool tune, and maybe Paul will hear it and want to cover it, ha.
I have no problem with anyone wanting to copy stuff to learn and develop. I guess I am coming from more like someone already has their thing and I'd much rather hear someone "cover" a tune with originality and their style. No matter how they do it. The technique is only a vehicle to get the notes out.
The best test of your skills is playing in public, with other musicians, in front of a live audience. Ok, solo shows are fine too, but having someone else on stage adds the extra challenge of proving you can play in time with another person, and not just a machine. The recording posted by Blix features a rhythm section - he's not playing alone.
Youtube lets people see that you can move your hands, sure, but as a test, it's a level below the pressure of being live onstage.
This may be true for you and others, but after playing live regularly for 3 or 4 months, its no different than playing alone. I was so bored at times I wanted to fall asleep. For me, the biggest pressure is recording. Any mistake is going to be heard over, and over again. Thats what gets me the most. Recording.
For me it's about the same - playing live and recording makes me equally nervous; but not bad enough to take whatever drugs some take to combat stage fright.
My post was in response to the notion that all guitarists are required to prove their skills by posting Youtube videos. To me the best medium of proof is live performance, preferably with others onstage.
No they're not.
If you can maintain a full time professional job, a family, and time to network and play with other musicians live, more power to you!
The subtext of many responses to this thread was "just because I'm not posting videos doesn't mean I'm not a great player."
Just to be clear, I never said that anyone who's not posting videos online is not talented. Or not valuable. Or not good as a person.
I just wanted to gauge how many people worldwide *can* actually play a difficult shred song when there are < 10 covers on YouTube, and most of them are abbreviated or overdubbed versions of it. I suspect a top quality version of any of these songs, done in a single take is a rare thing!
Have a good day!