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Discussion in 'Playing and Technique' started by cantstoplt021, Mar 26, 2014.
'Cept if you are Lightning Hopkins?
Thanks for the replies everyone. I'm going to really work with a metronome and try to get my rhythm playing sorted out. I ordered Tomo's accelerate your guitar playing and it looks like just what I need. There's some great exercises on there that I saw on youtube. I just need to get my DVD and booklet for them all.
I love that rhythm guitar, I would love to be able to play like that. I'm going to learn that by ear actually and see how it all works out. Wish me luck haha.
'Behind the beat' doesn't necessarily mean 'late'.
More often, it's starting or accenting a guitar line in between beats... but only slightly. When it's done by someone who knows what they're doing, it's done on purpose... to give a dragging sort of feel, or to lend a feeling of malaise. 'Rushing the beat' is similar, in that by just slightly jumping the beat, one can add a manic or energetic feel.
We're talking about subdivisions of a beat here, so unless you know exactly where the beat is, you're not really in a position to rush or drag for effect.
From my experience, certain types of picking techniques lend themselves to these applications. Upstrokes can tend to feel a bit 'behind' and 'downstrokes' can be pushed forward just a tad to rush.
So, we agree?
That's a long way to say so! LOL
As to the Rolling Stones, I've read where the way they often work is Keith sets the rhythm, and Charlie follows him, and Bill would follow Charlie. Maybe this is a big part of their overall "feel"?
Partly . I just thought your post needed quallification...
If you don't have a good sense of time, then foot tapping (while playing) won't help improve it. (That's the important point.)
If you do have a good sense of time, then you don't need to tap your foot to help you play in time.
But - if you do have a good sense of time - then foot tapping (like any other rhythmic movement) is simply an expression of how you're feeling the music. It's in you and it's got to come out, as John Lee Hooker said. Of course, lots of players with great time barely move a muscle (other than those they need to play their instruments). But if you can't help yourself moving, then it will probably make your timing worse if you try consciously to stay still.
Lastly, if your sense of time is bad, then maybe dancing or other movements to music - while not playing - might help improve it. (I'm just guessing on this one...)
If you want grooves and to learn to play behind the beat sit down and play rhythm with anything in the Stax /Volt catalog.
Steve Cropper, Duck Dunn and Al Jackson set the standard for laying back on pretty much everything they ever recorded.
That is very very interesting, thanks so much for doing and writing about it. I'm interested in your thoughts re this analysis and the premise that Keith sets the rhythm and Charlie follows, and the subject of lateness.
Here's a rough approximation. I didn't get all the embellishments but it's fun to figure out this stuff.
I just read this excellent book. What an epic tale:
Ann Peebles "Tellin' It & If this is heaven"
Donny Hathaway "Live"
No, I had horrible time when I started. Tapping my foot helped to ingrain the feeling and necessary skills. I think it can be an essential element for people with poor timing. And I've taught many students over the years who also benefitted greatly from this same approach. Not all of them, mind you. But many.
And yeah, an extension of how you're feeling the music. Sure.
Also, an addition, IMO.
I understand how you and others may disagree. But, I truly feel that the physical movement helps to enhance the entire experience. And when a player is "into it" more, this will be reflected in their playing and performance.
So, I guess partly agreed, as you said.
But again, in my opinion, "you gotta move".
In his Getting In Time book Uwe talks about:
1. Listening to music
2. Thinking about music
3. Feeling music with our body
The whole book is a series of exercises that can be used on whatever music you are working on that uses different placements of the metronome combine with foot-tapping and thinking. The Victor Wooten thing is somewhat similar.
Must a different Uwe Kropinski. I bet there's twenty Uwe Kropinski's that play guitar. The guy I saw perform (and I'd never heard of him before) with David Friesen had solid time and he was doing stuff with a tambourine with his foot that was deadly on time. I've never heard him play swing music so I wouldn't know if he swings or not. He does do a fair amount of clunking on the side of his guitar.
I guess if you feel that way about 'time' you can just try to make a three-pointer with your metronome in the basket. I'm still working on it. I need all the help I can get. I must be a lacker!
The video is really good too.
YES!! Tomo!! Donny Hathaway Live - The great Cornell Dupree and Phil Upchurch on guitar and Willie Weeks on bass.
Glad that you liked Donny Hathaway "LIVE"
That's a sort of bible of good groove!!!
Amazing version on "What's going on?" I love that a bit jazz arrangement.
Al Green records from the early 70s are a great source, too. Great rhythm section including Al Jackson and also featuring Teenie Hodges, one of the tastiest guitarists ever. Studying songs like "Let's Stay Together" and "Love and Happiness" really taught me a lot about playing rhythm guitar.
There is a similar thread going in the sound hound lounge for those of you that don't frequent that place. The thread gets quite interesting and informative around page 3 when a quite knowledgeable drummer offers some very interesting insights. It's definitely worth reading
It's all how you approach it.
I find the steady pulse of a metronome allows me to create groove by pushing and pulling against it.
Groove can be shaped like...
Exact Exact Exact Late Exact Exact Exact Late
which is a different groove than
Exact Exact Early Early Exact Exact Early Early.
Thinking more about my last post I guess that the results of what I described could be notated as 1/16 or 1/32 type durations before or after the beat.
Either way it is a way of using a metronome to help create groove. In a sense the metronome is the sound at its click time and you don't always need to occupy the same note space.
This is a different exercise than a standard "if you hear the click, you are off" type of practice.