how to magnetically reverse the phase of a PAF?

Discussion in 'Luthier's Guitar & Bass Technical Discussion' started by Roe, Jul 21, 2006.

  1. Roe

    Roe Member

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    I want a magnetic out of phase sound ala greenbaum in the middle pos on my les paul (tokai LS-320). How do I reverse/flipp the magnets?

    thanks
     
  2. Tinman

    Tinman Member

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    There was a Dan Erlewine article in Vintage Guitar a couple of issues back that I believe addressed this very question. I didn't read it carefully enough to answer myself though.
     
  3. Roe

    Roe Member

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    the pups have covers
     
  4. Tinman

    Tinman Member

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    The pups in the article had covers too.
     
  5. Fuchsaudio

    Fuchsaudio Member

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    You'll need to remove the cover and either swap the hot leads from the + and - outputs of the coils, or remove the magnet and install it in reversed direction on one pickup.
     
  6. tone4days

    tone4days Member

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    are you talking about magnetic polarity or electrical phase? ...you've mixed the terms and introduced uncertainty ..

    to introduce 'out of phase' electrically, you swap the hot and ground leads (no need to remove the cover) ... one way to do this is to use a push/pull pot or mini toggle switch to be able to go back and forth between in-phase and out-of-phase as desired ...

    to introduce magnetic polarity difference, you flip a magnet (need to remove the cover) ... this can also be done, in a manner of speaking, by just installing the pickup rotated 180 degrees and adjusting the wiring accordingly...

    hope this helps

    t4d
     
  7. Roe

    Roe Member

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    I'm going for magnetiv polarity. how do I get the magnets out and swipp them?
    pups are seth lovers.
     
  8. ES350

    ES350 Member

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    Well, you disassemble the pickup (cover, 4 bobbin screws), then slide the magnet out. Flip it 180 degrees along the long axis and put it back together. Seths aren't potted, so no wax to worry about, but get it all snug or you might get microphonics.
     
  9. rockinlespaul

    rockinlespaul Member

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    The Peter Green thing...

    After the cover is off, LOOSEN(just loosen, dont take them out)the four screws on the baseplate. This will allow you to slide the magnet out.
    Pull the mag out, flip it longways, slide it back in. Tighten screws, install cover. Done.
     
  10. tone4days

    tone4days Member

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    and just to make an attempt at being bulletproof on the definition of 'flip' the magnet ...

    let's say (arbitrarily, to illustrate the point) that the 'top' edge is negative pole and the 'bottom edge is the positive pole ... so the magnet is originally oriented like this ...


    ------------------------------------
    | ...............................................|
    | ...............................................|
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    you flip it so that it ends up like this:

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    | ...............................................|
    | ...............................................|
    ------------------------------------

    this is why it can be made to work, to a point, to simply install the pickup rotated 180 degrees ... you need to get the wiring right and decide if the tonal difference of having the screw coil and slug coils in unconventional orientation is agreeable to you
     
  11. THROBAK

    THROBAK Gold Supporting Member Vendor

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    Roll the magnet like a log.
     
  12. Roe

    Roe Member

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    thanks for the tips!
     
  13. bigroy

    bigroy Member

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    Actually a timely post for me. I bought a Hamer Custom Artist a few months ago, and the neck pup was turn so that the individual screws were closer to the bridge than the neck, and it sounded out of phase when the selector switch was in the middle position and the volume pots were up full.

    I rotated the pickup back to the original position, but it still sounds out of phase. I compared the wiring to a new model at the local Hamer dealer, and it's the same. Is there any marking on the pickups to indicate the top from the bottom? In terms of "rolling a log", is there any way to tell which is the top of the magnet, and which is the bottom?

    Sorry to hijack the thread, but this seems very related.

    Thanks
     
  14. Don A

    Don A Silver Supporting Member

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    The orientation of the pickup has little or nothing to do with it's tone.
    The orientation of the magnet does.
    To test the polarity of yours you can use a compass.
    The screw side of both pickups should be the same for them to be magnetically in phase.
    I'm not sure if the screw side should be north or south though.
     
  15. UfoPilot

    UfoPilot Member

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    mine are screw side south.
     
  16. Roe

    Roe Member

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    bigroy, the old hammers were out of phase. some like it, others don't.
    you can just revers the magnets
     
  17. VTX-XTC

    VTX-XTC Member

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    Here's a neat little Stew-Mac tool for checking the magnetic polarity of pickups:

    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]5127 [/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Magnet Polarity Tester $6.95
    [/FONT]

    [​IMG]
     
  18. karmadave

    karmadave Member

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    I would just purchase a set with the neck pup setup properly. I have a set of Peter Florance Voodoo 59s in my Tokai LS-150 and they sound great!

    -KD
     
  19. JingleJungle

    JingleJungle Member

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    The Peter Green wind calls for the pickups to be mounted w/ the screws facing the bridge AND to have the magnet flipped / rolled like a log.

    I'll have to dig up and post the link to the old Jol Dantzig interview where he describes Gary Moore's famous "flipped p.up" Les Paul... the one that belonged to Peter Greenbaum.

    JJ
     

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